Schriver(R): "Make Gay Marriage illegal...it's not extreme."

[zzand]

lido, I agree. Who gets married to who, as long as both are consenting adults, is no one's business but theirs and those who love and support them. Somewhere along the way the government, both parties, have decided they need to tell us how to think and feel. That is not the job.

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

You don't know of what you speak - I administer the healthcare plan at the company where I work for over 20 years.

The corporate healthcare plan was a fairly affordable, fixed rate for employee and their family! EVERYONE in the family got coverage under the corporate plan, pre-existing or not.

All Obamacare did was give everyone a license to break everything and charge more. UHC is a discount provider, Obamcare has done nothing to protect you from them.

Sorry, but most insurances policies prior to the ACA could and DID reject you for pre existing conditions. My uncle's insurance through his work denied him when he tried to open enroll every year.

[audiophile]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

[Turkeytop]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

You mean I can't buy fire insurance when my house is on fire?

[Rate This]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Conservatives also tell us it’s wrong for everyone to have coverage universally as an automatic thing. Pick one.

[MegaHertz]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Just as Jesus said it in the Bible. What chapter and verse was that?

[km1125]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Conservatives also tell us it’s wrong for everyone to have coverage universally as an automatic thing. Pick one.

Well, SOMEONE has to pay for that "universal coverage", and that ends up being all of us (at least all of us taxpayers). And having the government do it just ensures that there's a lot of waste, fraud and abuse of the system.

And forcing private enterprise to provide 'universal coverage' is even worse, because on tops of all the government-induced waste, fraud, and abuse, now you have a private company that has to make some kind of a profit to insure operations can continue. And they never estimate low on that side (or they go out of business).

[audiophile]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Conservatives also tell us it’s wrong for everyone to have coverage universally as an automatic thing. Pick one.

HA! You should talk!

[TC Talks]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Conservatives also tell us it’s wrong for everyone to have coverage universally as an automatic thing. Pick one.

Well, SOMEONE has to pay for that "universal coverage", and that ends up being all of us (at least all of us taxpayers). And having the government do it just ensures that there's a lot of waste, fraud and abuse of the system.

Taxpayers are paying for abuse? What exactly is this?

How does it feel to be a patsy for an organization like this one? 90% of their claims rejected...

UnitedHealth Group reported $22 billion in 2023 profits including $5.5 billion in the fourth quarter as its portfolio of health insurance and provider services grew by double-digit percentages.

UnitedHealth Group, a nationwide provider of medical care services under the Optum umbrella and a company that pays for benefits through its UnitedHealthcare health insurance plans, said 2023 revenue jumped 14.6%, or $47.5 billion, to $371.6 billion, “driven by serving more people, more comprehensively across its offerings,” the company said Friday. For the fourth quarter, UnitedHealth reported nearly $5.5 billion in profits as revenue increased to $94.4 billion from $82.7 billion in the year-ago period.

[Rate This]

That depended on the insurance carrier the company used and how large of a corporate group vs individual plan. Which switched in the middle of a higher-risk pregnancy with no issues before Obama took office. There was sometimes an increased waiting period to prevent abuse. Now you could be on your death bed and get insurance, that's not right either.

Conservatives also tell us it’s wrong for everyone to have coverage universally as an automatic thing. Pick one.

Well, SOMEONE has to pay for that "universal coverage", and that ends up being all of us (at least all of us taxpayers). And having the government do it just ensures that there's a lot of waste, fraud and abuse of the system.

And forcing private enterprise to provide 'universal coverage' is even worse, because on tops of all the government-induced waste, fraud, and abuse, now you have a private company that has to make some kind of a profit to insure operations can continue. And they never estimate low on that side (or they go out of business).

So someone is dying and that’s their problem? Society is hurt when anyone doesn’t have health insurance and the entire system has to shoulder the burden instead.

Be sure to send a message if you’re on your deathbed… I’ll be happy to pop in and let you know how glad I am to not be in your shoes.

[km1125]

This is branching way off the OP, but I'll entertain these two...

So someone is dying and that’s their problem?

Yes, let's start there. THEN we can figure out what "society" should do about it. If more folks would actually understand/adopt the concept that THEIR health is THEIR problem, then we'd probably see more folks being serious about doing some exercise well before they ever got sick or injured, which would make those events easier for their body to address. They'd also likely pay more attention to what they ate and maybe our stats on diabetes and obesity might more align with the rest of the developed world.

... Society is hurt when anyone doesn’t have health insurance and the entire system has to shoulder the burden instead. ...

Nice OPINION, but any actual facts to back that up?

[Rate This]

This is branching way off the OP, but I'll entertain these two...

So someone is dying and that’s their problem?

Yes, let's start there. THEN we can figure out what "society" should do about it. If more folks would actually understand/adopt the concept that THEIR health is THEIR problem, then we'd probably see more folks being serious about doing some exercise well before they ever got sick or injured, which would make those events easier for their body to address. They'd also likely pay more attention to what they ate and maybe our stats on diabetes and obesity might more align with the rest of the developed world.

... Society is hurt when anyone doesn’t have health insurance and the entire system has to shoulder the burden instead. ...

Nice OPINION, but any actual facts to back that up?

Since when does going off topic around here matter?

Sure. They tend to wait till the last minute and show up at an emergency room in sorry shape and the place treats them. Somebody has to absorb that cost in some way and it isn’t the poor dying person… it would be the same kind of reason everyone is supposed to have car insurance. You pay into the pool and everyone shoulders the cost.

Not only that but if they do have insurance and don’t pay or can’t afford to pay that puts stress on the system. There are plenty of folks who cannot afford the bills even with insurance and instead they forego treatments that would otherwise help them.

This survey has all kinds of details on people delaying or foregoing care because of cost considerations regardless of whether that have insurance or not:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... re,%202022

Kaiser Family Foundation is the gold standard in health research in this sort of area. But clearly someone who is foregoing care for cost reasons isn’t some lazy slug who doesn’t care.

[ZenithCKLW]

Your lack of humanity, compassion, and understanding is astounding. Congratulations.

Today, I learned that all health suffering is caused by each individual's laziness and poor eating habits. Cancer, auto injuries, auto-immune diseases, neurological diseases, injuries from violence, etc etc etc are all self-inflicted because these patients are stupid, lazy, fat fucks. No one ever suffered or got sick or died before Big Macs and Diet Coke were invented. Ever go up to a cancer patient or someone with MS and say "it's your own fault, you lazy fat fuck." And if you want to be pro-active about any preventable issues, that's going to be too expensive too because... stupid, lazy, fat fucks I guess. All health problems can be solved by a salad and a run.

I believe a healthy society is in everyone's best interest. Maybe our health condition isn't the same as the rest of the developed world because our health system sucks. Absolutely sucks, and is too inaccessible for too many people. People can scream about their taxes going toward stupid, lazy, fat fucks, but my taxes do too, and my taxes also go toward your health, and I'm ok with that, because we would all benefit. But you'd have to start with a shred of compassion instead of contempt and work up from there.

I hope you pay cash for any and all medical treatment. Accepting payments from a pooled contribution from insurance premiums of an entire group of insured, including in a private health insurance plan, is not rugged individualism. Murica.

[km1125]

This is branching way off the OP, but I'll entertain these two...

So someone is dying and that’s their problem?

Yes, let's start there. THEN we can figure out what "society" should do about it. If more folks would actually understand/adopt the concept that THEIR health is THEIR problem, then we'd probably see more folks being serious about doing some exercise well before they ever got sick or injured, which would make those events easier for their body to address. They'd also likely pay more attention to what they ate and maybe our stats on diabetes and obesity might more align with the rest of the developed world.

... Society is hurt when anyone doesn’t have health insurance and the entire system has to shoulder the burden instead. ...

Nice OPINION, but any actual facts to back that up?

Since when does going off topic around here matter?

Sure. They tend to wait till the last minute and show up at an emergency room in sorry shape and the place treats them. Somebody has to absorb that cost in some way and it isn’t the poor dying person… it would be the same kind of reason everyone is supposed to have car insurance. You pay into the pool and everyone shoulders the cost.

Not only that but if they do have insurance and don’t pay or can’t afford to pay that puts stress on the system. There are plenty of folks who cannot afford the bills even with insurance and instead they forego treatments that would otherwise help them.

This survey has all kinds of details on people delaying or foregoing care because of cost considerations regardless of whether that have insurance or not:
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/cha ... re,%202022

Kaiser Family Foundation is the gold standard in health research in this sort of area. But clearly someone who is foregoing care for cost reasons isn’t some lazy slug who doesn’t care.

Instead of just looking at the subset that study is targeting, why not look at the whole population? Do you really think that just because someone has health insurance that they get the best medical care our system is capable of producing? The answer is an astounding "NO!". Because our costs are SO inflated over the rest of the developed world, there are a myriad of compromises made in care. And those compromised affect the health of everyone, and also causes increases in costs for everyone.

If the lack of healthcare to 10% of the population caused their average life expectancy to drop by 10%, but those resources were applied to another 70% of the population and caused their life expectancy to increase by 10%, wouldn't that be a net benefit to society? (for the sake of calculations, the other 20% of the population experienced "no change" in either healthcare or life expectancy.)

[km1125]

Your lack of humanity, compassion, and understanding is astounding. Congratulations.

Today, I learned that all health suffering is caused by each individual's laziness and poor eating habits. Cancer, auto injuries, auto-immune diseases, neurological diseases, injuries from violence, etc etc etc are all self-inflicted because these patients are stupid, lazy, fat fucks. No one ever suffered or got sick or died before Big Macs and Diet Coke were invented. Ever go up to a cancer patient or someone with MS and say "it's your own fault, you lazy fat fuck." And if you want to be pro-active about any preventable issues, that's going to be too expensive too because... stupid, lazy, fat fucks I guess. All health problems can be solved by a salad and a run.

I believe a healthy society is in everyone's best interest. Maybe our health condition isn't the same as the rest of the developed world because our health system sucks. Absolutely sucks, and is too inaccessible for too many people. People can scream about their taxes going toward stupid, lazy, fat fucks, but my taxes do too, and my taxes also go toward your health, and I'm ok with that, because we would all benefit. But you'd have to start with a shred of compassion instead of contempt and work up from there.

I hope you pay cash for any and all medical treatment. Accepting payments from a pooled contribution from insurance premiums of an entire group of insured, including in a private health insurance plan, is not rugged individualism. Murica.