February Nielsen #'s - Grand Rapids

[cckadlec]

What I'm really curious about is:

How many of you honestly believe that station "ratings" are accurate? And if you do, why do you believe that?

I've always been skeptical of it from a statistical standpoint, though much the same with TV ratings and many other polls and I am really big fan of statistics. There is only so much of a statistical sample that is taken for polls, such as political polls. A sample of one group may completely leave out multiple other groups in different age groups or samples, meaning that no poll is truly perfectly predictable. Are these even done by mail anymore? How many younger folks will bother with that these days? Only a certain group of individuals would be likely to participate in such a thing. Interestingly, I was once chosen by mail and then a week later, they mailed me another letter saying they were cancelling my listener diary as it was no longer needed. I hadn't even had a chance to do it!

I feel if radios were built in a way to send usage statistics to a certain source (as if...), it may be more practical and accurate as it would record what is listened to and for how long, what time of the day, or what programs (like a morning program, syndicated program, etc.). Until then, I wonder if stations (more like the companies that run all stations) put all their faith in ratings that may not reflect the true reality of their listenership.

What do you think?

[thatonedude]

I have to agree with MW — Big clearly was just thrown on with no planning. As much as I like the playlist, it’s clear it isn’t working. Just tweak it to either classic hits or variety hits. They don’t even need to change the name.

Nice to see The Q holding steady. I love listening to it when I’m up there.

[ftballfan]

For Cumulus, swapping 105.3 and 107.3's formats would make some sense. It would put Hot on a stronger signal in the Grand Rapids area. Country on 105.3 would have much less competition to deal with (and would be much farther away from B93)

[option1]

What I'm really curious about is:

How many of you honestly believe that station "ratings" are accurate? And if you do, why do you believe that?

I've always been skeptical of it from a statistical standpoint, though much the same with TV ratings and many other polls and I am really big fan of statistics. There is only so much of a statistical sample that is taken for polls, such as political polls. A sample of one group may completely leave out multiple other groups in different age groups or samples, meaning that no poll is truly perfectly predictable. Are these even done by mail anymore? How many younger folks will bother with that these days? Only a certain group of individuals would be likely to participate in such a thing. Interestingly, I was once chosen by mail and then a week later, they mailed me another letter saying they were cancelling my listener diary as it was no longer needed. I hadn't even had a chance to do it!

I feel if radios were built in a way to send usage statistics to a certain source (as if...), it may be more practical and accurate as it would record what is listened to and for how long, what time of the day, or what programs (like a morning program, syndicated program, etc.). Until then, I wonder if stations (more like the companies that run all stations) put all their faith in ratings that may not reflect the true reality of their listenership.

What do you think?

Accurate? I guess it depends on your definition of accurate. This question has been debated for years if not decades. Before PPM when listeners had to fill out diaries there was definitely less accuracy. PPM has improved accuracy somewhat but I’ve seen cases where metered listeners were sought out and paid to listen to certain stations. We’ve historically seen cases where ratings had to be redone because of cheating. There is no way ratings are more than 75% accurate but companies continue to shell out millions of dollars for the service. Why? Because that’s all they got.

There are so many obvious flaws in the system that it makes it laughable. But these numbers are used strictly from a business perspective. Listeners don’t give a shit who is number one 25-54 but advertisers do. Ad buys are generated by these numbers be they inaccurate or not.

Your diary or PPM carries a certain “weight” in a particular demo. Since they can’t survey everyone it’ll represent the estimated population of that demo. Their goal is to get “returns” equivalent to represent that demo accurately. Sometimes the demo is over represented sometimes under. This is where the bullshit begins. Accuracy is basically thrown into a statistical quagmire where they fill in the blanks with whatever gets them to 100%. It’s a joke and will always be a joke. Unlike political polls radio conglomerates have the ability to get around half ass statistics and mediocre accuracy by owning multiple radio stations in markets and having the ability to combine those station ratings, good or bad, in a sales package.

Bottom line, I’ve reviewed many diaries in my time and some of the things you see written and some of the things people do in, and to them would leave you speechless. And they still count!

[SteveL]

I would say "all of the above". I have several friends who haven't listened to terrestrial radio in years and some are almost exclusively listening to podcasts or their own music. On the ratings post - When I was first at LAV back in 1990 I distinctly remember being told that very soon all new radios would have the technology to know exactly which station you were listening to and for how long and that the ratings services (Birch, anyone?) would be a thing of the past. Arbitron was flawed back then and flawed now but it's the only game in town - for the moment.