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I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

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MWmetalhead
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I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Trump's speech was one of the better moments of his Presidency, IMO. Granted, the bar isn't particularly high in that regard, but I thought he did a good job this afternoon.

Summary of his proposal:
- $800 million for additional technology at border crossings
- $200 million for migrant health care
- $800 million for additional law enforcement & border agents
- 75 additional federal immigration judges
- Facilitation of family reunification for migrant children
- Opportunity for migrants or would-be migrants from certain Central American countries to apply for asylum
- 3 year extension of DACA
- 3 year extension for TPS recipients

And, of course, $5.7 billion for the wall, which to be abundantly clear, is NOT going to be a solid wall across the entire border with Mexico. An actual wall will only be constructed in four or five regionalized high traffic areas. In other words, for the most part, existing physical barriers (to the extent they already exist) will largely remain as-is. In areas where pronounced weaknesses in barrier protection exist, they will be beefed up with a steel wall.

Democrats claim to be concerned about families being torn apart, about adults brought here as youths (by their parents) being deported, about migrants from violent Central American countries not being offered asylum, and about the care being given to detainees at border detention centers. And, of course, they claim to care about the Government employees who are suffering during the shutdown.

The latest Trump proposal offers solutions - albeit not necessarily permanent solution - for ALL of the above.

It is a balanced, thoughtful proposal.

Congress should approve it expeditiously.

If Nancy Pelosi refuses a vote, her caucus should move to rescind her speakership so that a more level-headed Speaker can take power and bring the legislation for a vote.

In my opinion, there is no reason whatsoever for anyone in either party to reject this new proposal from Trump.


Thanks, corporate radio, for finally tossing Nickelback to the curb. Now can you please do the same for Shinedown? THEY SUCK!!!

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audiophile
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by audiophile » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:38 pm

Sounds like triangulation.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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TheForce
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by TheForce » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:40 pm

Democrats signal they'll reject Trump shutdown proposal

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartandhp



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craig11152
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by craig11152 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:54 pm

Just a point of fact about the cost of a wall.
I doubt it's factored in when numbers like 5 billion dollars are tossed out but all that money is paid to the private sector that turns around and gives some back in the form of taxes.
Most of the trillions of dollars spent by the Government was and is spent in the private sector.
NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF THE WALL.


Finally, he switched to a bone saw to finish the job, and at 9:17 p.m., Mountain time, the head of the greatest hitter who ever lived had been sliced off.

NS8401
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by NS8401 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:09 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:34 pm
Trump's speech was one of the better moments of his Presidency, IMO. Granted, the bar isn't particularly high in that regard, but I thought he did a good job this afternoon.

Summary of his proposal:
- $800 million for additional technology at border crossings
- $200 million for migrant health care
- $800 million for additional law enforcement & border agents
- 75 additional federal immigration judges
- Facilitation of family reunification for migrant children
- Opportunity for migrants or would-be migrants from certain Central American countries to apply for asylum
- 3 year extension of DACA
- 3 year extension for TPS recipients

And, of course, $5.7 billion for the wall, which to be abundantly clear, is NOT going to be a solid wall across the entire border with Mexico. An actual wall will only be constructed in four or five regionalized high traffic areas. In other words, for the most part, existing physical barriers (to the extent they already exist) will largely remain as-is. In areas where pronounced weaknesses in barrier protection exist, they will be beefed up with a steel wall.

Democrats claim to be concerned about families being torn apart, about adults brought here as youths (by their parents) being deported, about migrants from violent Central American countries not being offered asylum, and about the care being given to detainees at border detention centers. And, of course, they claim to care about the Government employees who are suffering during the shutdown.

The latest Trump proposal offers solutions - albeit not necessarily permanent solution - for ALL of the above.

It is a balanced, thoughtful proposal.

Congress should approve it expeditiously.

If Nancy Pelosi refuses a vote, her caucus should move to rescind her speakership so that a more level-headed Speaker can take power and bring the legislation for a vote.

In my opinion, there is no reason whatsoever for anyone in either party to reject this new proposal from Trump.
The three years thing is just kicking the can down the road and probably to a new president... if he had offered permanent DACA protections and a path to citizenship he would have probably gotten them talking.

What would be a game changer is opening a large immigration processing center ala Ellis Island. Then folks could come there and enter legally. At the same time you legalize anyone here illegally with the specific declaration that anyone who chooses to cross the border illegally subsequently faces 180 days in jail and permanent disqualification from entry. If you do those things the immigration problem will quickly get back under control.

Nobody needs the horseshit fearmongering at the beginning of the speech. That was wholly inaccurate and absolutely inappropriate in that speech. You don’t extend an Olive branch and try to reach a compromise by inflaming your opponent first.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 pm

Good points, Craig.

On a similar note, I would point out that private industry is hurt by a prolonged government shut down. No paychecks to government employees can have a substantial impact on local economies in areas where the federal government is the largest or one of the largest employers. Retailers, restaurants and service companies in those areas are all impacted.

Private businesses who have contracts with the federal government may see postponement of payment on open invoices, which could cause financial strains in cases where such businesses do not have lines of credit to access.

The proposal is a reasonable compromise. It shows the administration is (at least now) bargaining in good faith.

If the Democratic congressional leadership refuses a vote on this proposal or a substantially similar proposal, it will suggest to me that they don't give a rat's ass about any of the groups they claim to care about, that they are not serious about immigration reform solutions, and that they solely care about denying Trump a legislative victory at all cost.


Thanks, corporate radio, for finally tossing Nickelback to the curb. Now can you please do the same for Shinedown? THEY SUCK!!!

NS8401
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by NS8401 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:25 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:17 pm
Good points, Craig.

On a similar note, I would point out that private industry is hurt by a prolonged government shut down. No paychecks to government employees can have a substantial impact on local economies in areas where the federal government is the largest or one of the largest employers. Retailers, restaurants and service companies in those areas are all impacted.

Private businesses who have contracts with the federal government may see postponement of payment on open invoices, which could cause financial strains in cases where such businesses do not have lines of credit to access.

The proposal is a reasonable compromise. It shows the administration is (at least now) bargaining in good faith.

If the Democratic congressional leadership refuses a vote on this proposal or a substantially similar proposal, it will suggest to me that they don't give a rat's ass about any of the groups they claim to care about, that they are not serious about immigration reform solutions, and that they solely care about denying Trump a legislative victory at all cost.
Again... you don’t start an offer by saying “hey opponents... I want to compromise but first a message to scare my base and keep them on my side!” By throwing out the fear mongering at the beginning the proposal became untenable... this proposal includes a lot of things Democrats support... but at the same time the 3 year thing is the hang-up now. Why not give the dreamers a path to citizenship in exchange for $25 billion for a wall? That was the proposal Trump walked away from early last year... the $5.7 billion is a starter by the way. They’ll ask for more wall later on...

If you want to fix this you need a legal path for the dreamers, an Ellis Island style place for legal registration for the folks who want to come here And Amnesty through registration and processing for the folks who are here legally. Short of that this is just window dressing and it does nothing but kick the can down the road once again...



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MWmetalhead
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:32 pm

The three years thing is just kicking the can down the road and probably to a new president... if he had offered permanent DACA protections and a path to citizenship he would have probably gotten them talking.
The fact Trump is willing to establish the deadline beyond his existing Presidential term is a major "give" on his part. This will enable the issue to be considered in policy debates during 2020 electoral campaigns.

I support DACA in concept. Independent studies from CATO and other economists show that it is beneficial to our economy on a net basis. However, it was wrong for Obama to implement DACA using executive authority.
Again... you don’t start an offer by saying “hey opponents... screw you and your ideas!”... by throwing out the fear mongering at the beginning the proposal became untenable..
So, you're more concerned with style & rhetoric than substance of the proposal? (By the way, I respectfully disagree your characterization.) You're fine with keeping the federal government shut down indefinitely? That's exactly what will happen if this legislation doesn't pass.

The Dem leadership was whining about spending $5.7 billion. They won't agree to $25 billion, I suspect. You are correct to suggest that additional funding will probably be requested at a later date. That shouldn't be a deal breaker with respect to the current proposal.


Thanks, corporate radio, for finally tossing Nickelback to the curb. Now can you please do the same for Shinedown? THEY SUCK!!!

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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:40 pm

Correction to an earlier monetary figure I cited: the humanitarian assistance figure is actually $800 million, not $200 million.

I must've mixed up that number with the border agent / law enforcement stipend.

The Dems in Congress with their highly irresponsible comments today are effectively giving Trump every incentive in the world to keep the government closed while he explores a "Plan B" that would not require Congressional approval.


Thanks, corporate radio, for finally tossing Nickelback to the curb. Now can you please do the same for Shinedown? THEY SUCK!!!

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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:53 pm

How different is Trump's proposal than what the Dem's brought to Congress not that long ago and Repubs shot down? Not much that I can see. As for the DACA thing, he didn't give anything up since his EO's have been sidelined by the courts and will be for the foreseeable future.

That said I'm happy he at least took a few minutes away from the golf course to slap something together and give the illusion that wants the government to get started again.



NS8401
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by NS8401 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:16 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:32 pm
The three years thing is just kicking the can down the road and probably to a new president... if he had offered permanent DACA protections and a path to citizenship he would have probably gotten them talking.
The fact Trump is willing to establish the deadline beyond his existing Presidential term is a major "give" on his part. This will enable the issue to be considered in policy debates during 2020 electoral campaigns.

I support DACA in concept. Independent studies from CATO and other economists show that it is beneficial to our economy on a net basis. However, it was wrong for Obama to implement DACA using executive authority.
Again... you don’t start an offer by saying “hey opponents... screw you and your ideas!”... by throwing out the fear mongering at the beginning the proposal became untenable..
So, you're more concerned with style & rhetoric than substance of the proposal? (By the way, I respectfully disagree your characterization.) You're fine with keeping the federal government shut down indefinitely? That's exactly what will happen if this legislation doesn't pass.

The Dem leadership was whining about spending $5.7 billion. They won't agree to $25 billion, I suspect. You are correct to suggest that additional funding will probably be requested at a later date. That shouldn't be a deal breaker with respect to the current proposal.
The GOP was never going to give Obama DACA. They were unwilling to give Obama anything. He had no choice but to use executive authority...

Why should the Democrats give in, allow the can to be kicked down the road for the 50th time and debate this ad nauseum with a fearmongering Trump in 2020? Public opinion is significantly on their side and blames Trump for the shutdown. A proposal giving Trump what he wants while giving the Democrats a reprieve on what they want is hardly a compromise. Trump gets his wall and the Democrats get a 3 year DACA extension and no guarantee beyond that. As a negotiator in the stronger position why would you take an offer that gives you significantly less than the other guy?



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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by NS8401 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:19 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:40 pm
Correction to an earlier monetary figure I cited: the humanitarian assistance figure is actually $800 million, not $200 million.

I must've mixed up that number with the border agent / law enforcement stipend.

The Dems in Congress with their highly irresponsible comments today are effectively giving Trump every incentive in the world to keep the government closed while he explores a "Plan B" that would not require Congressional approval.
He already ruled out “plan B” earlier this week. So he’d be going back on his word at that point. The National Emergency thing almost certainly wouldn’t pass muster.

Have you any opinion of my DACA path to citizenship/legalization and registration of those already here/Ellis Island deal? I think that’s a pretty substantial proposal that absolutely nobody is looking at...



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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by bmw » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:24 pm

NS8401 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:16 pm
The GOP was never going to give Obama DACA. They were unwilling to give Obama anything. He had no choice but to use executive authority...
Well, it is abundantly clear that the dems are unwilling to give Trump anything, so you're agreeing that he has no choice but to use executive authority?

-----------

Replying to the broader topic - I watched the speech today. I can see how the DACA extension could be viewed as kicking the can down the road, but what is the alternative? Political reality is that republicans control the Senate by a decent margin and that a broader, permanent DACA fix isn't going to happen anytime soon. Republicans DO STILL HAVE MORE CONTROL than democrats do as they have both the executive branch and 1/2 of the legislative branch (not to mention a conservative majority on the Supreme Court). Now that dems have taken over the house, they're behaving like they control everything.

Overall I agree with MW's take on this.

Will be interesting to see if the blame for the shutdown shifts at all towards democrats being completely unwilling to so much as budge from their position.



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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by bmw » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:25 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:53 pm
How different is Trump's proposal than what the Dem's brought to Congress not that long ago and Repubs shot down? Not much that I can see.
So why aren't the dems 100% onboard?



screen glare
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Re: I fully support the Trump immigration proposal

Post by screen glare » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:25 pm

George Conway: Trump is “a pathological liar”.

Which means he is not to be trusted.

There is no meaningful way to negotiate with a person who has lost the trust of the majority of Americans. And of the entire world. Trump is - as always - his own worst enemy. His reputation is mud.



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