On a scale of 0-10, how worried are you about coronavirus?

[bmw]

Let's say it is a a hundred. Ok, so when do you think the number of active cases will be back below that number? By the look of things, it could be many months.

I go back to what I said several weeks ago in here - you can't just shut the country down. Not over a virus that when all is said and done might have a mortality rate under 1% and even significantly less than that for the working-age population.

[Rate This]

Let's say it is a a hundred. Ok, so when do you think the number of active cases will be back below that number? By the look of things, it could be many months.

I go back to what I said several weeks ago in here - you can't just shut the country down. Not over a virus that when all is said and done might have a mortality rate under 1% and even significantly less than that for the working-age population.

I think we are deathly afraid that this is another Spanish Flu type thing... But I’m with you... we can’t indefinitely shut the place down and you raise a good question about what we do if the infection rate stays up for months on end.

In other news the first dose of a potential Covid-19 vaccine will be delivered on Monday...

[Rate This]

CDC now recommending gatherings of 50 or more be cancelled for 8 weeks... that’d put us at May 16th at the earliest before things start to return to normal.

[bmw]

My question is, at what point does this become a violation of one's First Amendment right to freedom of assembly? Gatherings of 25? 10? 5? Where's the line?

And what if a large group wants to get together and protest these government restrictions? Are they effectively banned from exercising one of their most basic rights under the Constitution?

[bmw]

The precedents being set as we speak are going to lead to things being shut down well into the summer, if not the fall.

I don't like it. Not one bit. Not to mention one of the longer term effects of putting a LOT of small business owners out of business who can't afford to keep their doors closed for that long. Talk about widening the gap between the rich and and the poor/middle class. It'll be like the dot-com bust in 2000. The companies that survive and rise from the ashes will consolidate and get even bigger.

[audiophile]

Whitmer signed an executive order that you can't make more than a 20% profit.

[audiophile]

My question is, at what point does this become a violation of one's First Amendment right to freedom of assembly? Gatherings of 25? 10? 5? Where's the line?

And what if a large group wants to get together and protest these government restrictions? Are they effectively banned from exercising one of their most basic rights under the Constitution?

If it's an outdoor event, what could they do? The limit is for indoor events.

[TC Talks]

From countries where people are dying with the virus:

Age. Mortality Rate
80. 20%
70. 13%
60. 6%
50. 4.5%
40. 3%
30 under 1.4%

So I guess I don't care as much about the hardships of "Small Business" as much as those who risk death.

[bmw]

My question is, at what point does this become a violation of one's First Amendment right to freedom of assembly? Gatherings of 25? 10? 5? Where's the line?

And what if a large group wants to get together and protest these government restrictions? Are they effectively banned from exercising one of their most basic rights under the Constitution?

If it's an outdoor event, what could they do? The limit is for indoor events.

Are the limits specifically applicable to indoors only? I can't seem to locate anything specifying that. All I see is "gatherings."

[audiophile]

The precedents being set as we speak are going to lead to things being shut down well into the summer, if not the fall.

I don't like it. Not one bit. Not to mention one of the longer term effects of putting a LOT of small business owners out of business who can't afford to keep their doors closed for that long. Talk about widening the gap between the rich and and the poor/middle class. It'll be like the dot-com bust in 2000. The companies that survive and rise from the ashes will consolidate and get even bigger.

I'm waiting for her to put a ban on sex. Why not, it's fits with her pro-abortion stance.

[audiophile]

My question is, at what point does this become a violation of one's First Amendment right to freedom of assembly? Gatherings of 25? 10? 5? Where's the line?

And what if a large group wants to get together and protest these government restrictions? Are they effectively banned from exercising one of their most basic rights under the Constitution?

If it's an outdoor event, what could they do? The limit is for indoor events.

Are the limits specifically applicable to indoors only? I can't seem to locate anything specifying that. All I see is "gatherings."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

Beginning on March 13, 2020 at 5:00 pm, and continuing through April 5, 2020 at 5:00 pm, all assemblages of more than 250 people in a single shared space and all events of more than 250 people are prohibited in this state, except for assemblages for the purpose of: industrial or manufacturing work; mass transit; or the purchase of groceries or consumer goods. A single shared space includes but is not limited to a room, hall, cafeteria, auditorium, theater, or gallery. This prohibition does not abridge protections guaranteed by the state or federal constitution under these emergency circumstances.

[bmw]

From countries where people are dying with the virus:

Age. Mortality Rate
80. 20%
70. 13%
60. 6%
50. 4.5%
40. 3%
30 under 1.4%

So I guess I don't care as much about the hardships of "Small Business" as much as those who risk death.

I'm so tired of having to point out that the mortality rate is only half the story. Infection rate is equally important. Moreover, aside from the fact that your mortality rates are significantly inflated compared to any reliable sources I've read (I don't know why you feel the need to constantly inflate the severity of the virus in post after post after post on this site), mortality rates are based on INCOMPLETE DATA. Most of the deaths are reported. Actual infections not so much. I've read multiple reputable sources who claim that once our data is more complete, their modeling suggests that the mortality will likely be closer to 0.8 to 1.2 percent overall.

I would also point you specifically to South Korea where the rate sits at 75 deaths out of 8162 cases, or 0.9 percent. And you know why? Because they're doing far more tests per capita than any other nation and they're detecting a lot more of the cases. I suspect that South Korea's numbers are probably much closer to reality worldwide than are numbers in excess of 3%.

Even ALL THAT ASIDE, I eventually end up back at the basic premise of the fact that people are dying worldwide literally every second. And the VAST MAJORITY of deaths are being caused by something other than the Coronavirus. 150,000 people die every day. Today, 343 of those deaths were from Coronavirus. That's 1 in 437. If you're willing to give up these kinds of rights to save 1 life out of 437, what other rights are you willing to give up to save the other 436?

[bmw]

My question is, at what point does this become a violation of one's First Amendment right to freedom of assembly? Gatherings of 25? 10? 5? Where's the line?

And what if a large group wants to get together and protest these government restrictions? Are they effectively banned from exercising one of their most basic rights under the Constitution?

If it's an outdoor event, what could they do? The limit is for indoor events.

Are the limits specifically applicable to indoors only? I can't seem to locate anything specifying that. All I see is "gatherings."

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/0,9309 ... --,00.html

Beginning on March 13, 2020 at 5:00 pm, and continuing through April 5, 2020 at 5:00 pm, all assemblages of more than 250 people in a single shared space and all events of more than 250 people are prohibited in this state, except for assemblages for the purpose of: industrial or manufacturing work; mass transit; or the purchase of groceries or consumer goods. A single shared space includes but is not limited to a room, hall, cafeteria, auditorium, theater, or gallery. This prohibition does not abridge protections guaranteed by the state or federal constitution under these emergency circumstances.

Thanks for the link. It looks like at least as of right now that Michigan's ban isn't totally insane. Massachusettes' is much stricter, however, with this quote straight from Governor Baker:

These gatherings include all community, civic, public, leisure, faith-based events, sporting events with spectators, concerts, conventions and any similar event or activity that brings together 25 or more people in single room or a single space at the same time. This includes venues like fitness centers, private clubs and theaters.

[Lester The Nightfly]

From countries where people are dying with the virus:

Age. Mortality Rate
80. 20%
70. 13%
60. 6%
50. 4.5%
40. 3%
30 under 1.4%

So I guess I don't care as much about the hardships of "Small Business" as much as those who risk death.

I would suggest that, given the current uncertainty of the scope and arc of how this will play out, any business small, medium or large that put their financial interests above that of the health and well being of the public at large, let alone their employees and customers during a pandemic national emergency deserve whatever consequences may befall them. There will be plenty of time to work through relief for those affected by these events, but now is the time that we need to simply follow the directives of what science and public health officials prescribe even if that means shutting the whole shit show down for however long that takes. Period. End of sentence.

If that's too much for you to do, if that impinges on your rights or is burdensome to your financial lifestyle, too fucking bad. Not when lives are at stake, not when people are dying because you couldn't be bothered to understand or care how a pandemic evolves and is resolved. What is even more objectionable is what amounts to a disrespect of the efforts of those in the medical community who choose to no shit risk their own lives in order to help mitigate the circumstances. If you want to insist this is some social, economic or political game I would highly recommend you to go out and lick the coin slot on a vending machine at an airport because by God it's your right to if you choose. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[screen glare]

Better yet simply shake hands with Trump. Or Pence.