Matt will be happy - I'm now on the "dump Trump" bandwagon

[TC Talks]

I hope he gets her back, they're both sort of funny looking in the same kinda way.

[Matt]

[MegaHertz]

I saw this posted on a few sites earlier. I don't recall one positive response except for some soup fork who said something about Ayatollas or something like that.

[Honeyman]

There is absolutely no defense they have outside of the excuses listed. And granted, the options are legit, the Democrats have not proposed a goddamn thing outside of the disaster that Trump has created. But their lack of defense is telling. They care more for their party than the country.

[bmw]

For what its worth, Trump's antics are wearing thin for me and I'm about to the point where he's worn out his welcome. His 2nd term has become completely derailed by his own ego. His campaign promises are in shambles and he pretends like he's delivering 100 percent on everything he promised. He's wrong on AI. He's sugar-coating the Iran situation. His $5,000 checks are a joke. This has been festering for a while and has gradually been wearing on me, but there's just no indication that he has much of a plan for either Iran or the economy. And this is all a shame because I still think he had a largely successful first term.

I'm equally fed up with who I hold at least partly responsible for this, and that is the conservative media (Levin, Hannity, Buck/Clay, Fox News, et al). They have all thrown intellectual honesty right out the window and sold their souls to remain relevant in Trump land on not get on his bad side. Mark Levin, in particular, I find completely insufferable these days.

[Rate This]

For what its worth, Trump's antics are wearing thin for me and I'm about to the point where he's worn out his welcome. His 2nd term has become completely derailed by his own ego. His campaign promises are in shambles and he pretends like he's delivering 100 percent on everything he promised. He's wrong on AI. He's sugar-coating the Iran situation. His $5,000 checks are a joke. This has been festering for a while and has gradually been wearing on me, but there's just no indication that he has much of a plan for either Iran or the economy. And this is all a shame because I still think he had a largely successful first term.

I'm equally fed up with who I hold at least partly responsible for this, and that is the conservative media (Levin, Hannity, Buck/Clay, et al). They have all thrown intellectual honesty right out the window and sold their souls to remain relevant in Trump land on not get on his bad side. Mark Levin, in particular, I find completely insufferable these days.

We understood this a decade ago.

[bmw]

We understood this a decade ago.

Well his gradual souring on me is way different than your and others dislike for him from day 1. Apples to oranges.

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We understood this a decade ago.

Well his gradual souring on me is way different than your and others dislike for him from day 1. Apples to oranges.

Sure but the reasons you cite are things we were warning about and shouting from the rooftops about. We realized what he really is without having to buy the product and wonder what the hell is wrong with it. So we arrived at the same place. The only question is when the realization happened and why it took you so long to see what was plainly obvious from the jump.

[Matt]

We understood this a decade ago.

Well his gradual souring on me is way different than your and others dislike for him from day 1. Apples to oranges.

I welcome your evolution. My inflection point was 1/6/21.

[bmw]

Sure but the reasons you cite are things we were warning about and shouting from the rooftops about. We realized what he really is without having to buy the product and wonder what the hell is wrong with it. So we arrived at the same place. The only question is when the realization happened and why it took you so long to see what was plainly obvious from the jump.

I disagree that you and I have "arrived at the same place" as I still suspect we're in quite drastically different places here. You are in a place of "I told you so." I am in a place of disappointment. Also I do think something has changed in his attitude towards the job sometime over the past 6 months or so. He's always been brash, but he seems more verbally combative than is normal even for him. I'm starting to sense he's frustrated with his own failures and doesn't know how to deal with it.

[Matt]

Sure but the reasons you cite are things we were warning about and shouting from the rooftops about. We realized what he really is without having to buy the product and wonder what the hell is wrong with it. So we arrived at the same place. The only question is when the realization happened and why it took you so long to see what was plainly obvious from the jump.

I disagree that you and I have "arrived at the same place" as I still suspect we're in quite drastically different places here. You are in a place of "I told you so." I am in a place of disappointment. Also I do think something has changed in his attitude towards the job sometime over the past 6 months or so. He's always been brash, but he seems more verbally combative than is normal even for him. I'm starting to sense he's frustrated with his own failures and doesn't know how to deal with it.

This whole term has been based on revenge and making as much money as he can.

[Honeyman]

Sure but the reasons you cite are things we were warning about and shouting from the rooftops about. We realized what he really is without having to buy the product and wonder what the hell is wrong with it. So we arrived at the same place. The only question is when the realization happened and why it took you so long to see what was plainly obvious from the jump.

I disagree that you and I have "arrived at the same place" as I still suspect we're in quite drastically different places here. You are in a place of "I told you so." I am in a place of disappointment. Also I do think something has changed in his attitude towards the job sometime over the past 6 months or so. He's always been brash, but he seems more verbally combative than is normal even for him. I'm starting to sense he's frustrated with his own failures and doesn't know how to deal with it.

You're so full of shit I can smell it from 2500 miles away. Just like your first post in this thread was a ridiculous attempt at a mea culpa by blaming his attitude and combativeness at the quickly forgotten Ron DeSantis, now that's what you're gonna go with again? Nothing about the blatant corruption in his administration? The hiring of complete incompetent individuals throughout the cabinet? The outright lies he tells the American people on a daily basis to defend his unlawful and illegal war? The locking up and killing of innocent citizens? The bastardization of our election laws? The eroding of the trust of our staunchest allies? These and the multitude if other things that are so obvious to any thinking individual aren't the straw that breaks you, but his increased verbal combativeness the past 6 months does. He's mean, so you're off his bandwagon again. PUH-FUCKING-LEEZ.

Save us your feeble attempt to try and save face as the country crumbles. You voted for this disaster 3 times and defended the treasonous mother fucker here for a decade. Go dust off your DeSantis hat and stick to fixing computers.

[bmw]

Easy there. Don't pop a blood vessel.

btw - this post of yours perfectly illustrates something I said in here recently. Nothing short of me burning him in effigy would please some of you.

I'll address your points one at a time.

Nothing about the blatant corruption in his administration?
Correct. There is some amount of corruption that goes on in all administrations, it isn't something I get bent out of shape over. I don't think Trump's admin is noteworthy historically in this regard.

The hiring of complete incompetent individuals throughout the cabinet?
Correct, but only because I believe strong deference should be given to the President and who he wants in his cabinet. Though for the record I am not and never have been a fan of Hegseth, and the Kennedy choice was certainly an odd one.

The outright lies he tells the American people on a daily basis to defend his unlawful and illegal war?
I've discussed this one before. I think the war is perfectly legal, and I've also had enough of his constant sugar-coating of the situation. Call it lying if you will. I would say it is at a minimum extreme exaggeration.

The locking up and killing of innocent citizens?
Name names and I'll comment.

The bastardization of our election laws?
Completely disagree with you on this one.

The eroding of the trust of our staunchest allies?
I haven't commented much on this one, but I don't like how he's treating Canada right now.

...his increased verbal combativeness the past 6 months does. He's mean, so you're off his bandwagon again.
Ummm, learn some reading skills because that's not what I said.

[Matt]

Easy there. Don't pop a blood vessel.

btw - this post of yours perfectly illustrates something I said in here recently. Nothing short of me burning him in effigy would please some of you.

I'll address your points one at a time.

Nothing about the blatant corruption in his administration?
Correct. There is some amount of corruption that goes on in all administrations, it isn't something I get bent out of shape over. I don't think Trump's admin is noteworthy historically in this regard.

The hiring of complete incompetent individuals throughout the cabinet?
Correct, but only because I believe strong deference should be given to the President and who he wants in his cabinet. Though for the record I am not and never have been a fan of Hegseth, and the Kennedy choice was certainly an odd one.

The outright lies he tells the American people on a daily basis to defend his unlawful and illegal war?
I've discussed this one before. I think the war is perfectly legal, and I've also had enough of his constant sugar-coating of the situation. Call it lying if you will. I would say it is at a minimum extreme exaggeration.

The locking up and killing of innocent citizens?
Name names and I'll comment.

The bastardization of our election laws?
Completely disagree with you on this one.

The eroding of the trust of our staunchest allies?
I haven't commented much on this one, but I don't like how he's treating Canada right now.

...his increased verbal combativeness the past 6 months does. He's mean, so you're off his bandwagon again.
Ummm, learn some reading skills because that's not what I said.

All of the below is a ChatGPT rebuttal. I chose to italicize, rather than quote, as extensive quotes are not visibly appealing. I like the response as it removes emotional statements and focuses on the facts that have been dismissed. I again want to make an appeal to the others to let you process your changing view of this president.

The problem with several of these responses is that they reduce documented events to matters of personal tolerance or opinion.

On corruption: saying "there's some amount of corruption in every administration" doesn't really address the issue. The question is whether there are documented conflicts of interest and self-dealing that are unusual enough to warrant concern. Trump reported more than $1.4 billion in income from his family's cryptocurrency ventures, while simultaneously promoting cryptocurrency policy from the White House. His administration has also been pursuing legislation that the crypto industry strongly supports. Trump says his investments are independently managed and denies improper involvement, but the financial overlap itself is an objective fact.

So "all administrations have corruption" isn't a rebuttal to evidence of a president personally profiting from an industry his administration is regulating.

On people being locked up: "name names" is a reasonable request, and there are names.

Kilmar Abrego Garcia was a Salvadoran immigrant who had been granted protection by an immigration judge specifically preventing his deportation to El Salvador because of a documented fear of persecution. The Trump administration nevertheless deported him to El Salvador, later acknowledged that the deportation was an error, and he was held in a notorious prison there. After he was brought back to the United States, ICE detained him again on criminal charges that he denies. A federal judge subsequently ordered his release and said the government had detained him without legal basis.

More broadly, a federal appeals court just ruled that the administration's policy of mandatory detention without bond hearings is illegal. That was the ninth federal appeals court to reject the policy, although two other appeals courts have reached the opposite conclusion, so the issue is headed toward Supreme Court review.

That's not a matter of whether someone personally finds Trump's immigration policy distasteful. Federal courts have actually found parts of the administration's detention policy unlawful.

And on citizens being killed: there are specific names here too.

Renee Good, a 37-year-old U.S. citizen and mother of three, was shot and killed by an ICE officer in Minneapolis in January during the administration's immigration enforcement operation. Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old U.S. citizen and ICU nurse, was also shot and killed by federal immigration officers during the same broader operation.

That doesn't establish that Trump personally ordered their deaths, or that the officers intentionally murdered them. Those are separate legal questions that require evidence and investigation. But it is an indisputable fact that American citizens were killed by federal immigration officers during an immigration enforcement campaign carried out by the Trump administration.

That's why "name names" doesn't really resolve the concern. The names, dates, circumstances, investigations and court proceedings exist.

The same distinction applies to the "perfectly legal" argument about the war. Saying "I believe it's legal" is different from establishing that it is legal. Legality is ultimately determined through constitutional, statutory and international-law analysis, including by Congress and the courts. Likewise, saying Trump is merely "exaggerating" rather than lying doesn't address whether the underlying statements are factually false.

And there's an important difference between "I don't consider these things sufficiently important to change my opinion of Trump" and "these things aren't happening." The first is a personal judgment. The second is a factual claim that has to be tested against the evidence.

There is substantial documented evidence of unlawful detention, wrongful deportation, deaths of U.S. citizens at the hands of federal immigration officers, and extraordinary financial entanglements between the president's private businesses and industries affected by his administration's policies. Those facts deserve to be addressed directly rather than dismissed as things that happen in every administration.

[Matt]