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Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by Rate This » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:15 pm

rugratsonline wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:17 pm
CircleWXYZ wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:32 pm
MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:46 pm
It would take a Nexstar / Tribune type deal or a financial catastrophe at Scripps for WXYZ to ever be put on the block for the sale. That is the *only* scenario where I could imagine WXYZ ever falling into ABC's hands.
Truthfully, we were talking about that crazy possibility of WDIV losing it’s NBC affiliation and being bought by ABC. Scripps seems to be doing great but I’m not sure how well Graham is doing. I know, it’s crazy but I’ve seen crazy things happen in thr world of television.
Couldn't ABC simply buy back WXYZ? Or even buy WDIV and swap it with WXYZ?
They could buy it but they missed their calling on that when the station was doing well maybe 15 years ago...



fuzzpower
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by fuzzpower » Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:57 pm

Again, ABC has no interest in an O&O in a declining market, with a declining city at its core. If Scripps somehow throws ABC off of 7 (and indirectly 20), then maybe, since I can’t see Adell affiliating and the others are O&Os (including the forgotten WPXD) except WDIV.



CircleWXYZ
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by CircleWXYZ » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:45 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:57 pm
Again, ABC has no interest in an O&O in a declining market, with a declining city at its core. If Scripps somehow throws ABC off of 7 (and indirectly 20), then maybe, since I can’t see Adell affiliating and the others are O&Os (including the forgotten WPXD) except WDIV.
Detroit is still a major city and market, nonetheless. It’s also city that’s starting to show signs of rebirth. Anything is possible.



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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by thekman » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:05 pm

Gee, do you think anything is possible? Considering you’ve said it 4 times in this thread, I’m going to go out in a limb and say that you do.

Okay, on that basis, the DuMont Television Network wills itself back into existence 63 years after going bankrupt. They purchase channel 4, and force NBC onto WPXD our of Ann Arbor. I know it’s crazy, but sometimes crazy things happen. Anything is possible!



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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by fuzzpower » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:15 pm

Detroit is still losing population. The city is still mostly in ruins. Drive around sometime.

No thekman, NBC is going to the recalled CKLW 9, which Bell will buy from the CBC. CTV wasn’t viable due to some American rights from the other Detroit stations.



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rugratsonline
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by rugratsonline » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:32 pm

thekman wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:05 pm
...on that basis, the DuMont Television Network wills itself back into existence 63 years after going bankrupt...
Never mind that the Fox network is basically a rebirth of Dumont -- two of its O&Os, WNYW New York and WTTG Washington, were former O&Os of Dumont.



CircleWXYZ
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by CircleWXYZ » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:13 am

Only haters say that Detroit has no hope, when in reality, that’s far from the truth. The 1960s-1990s are long over with. The new generation is helping to rebuild this city, as it’s going to come with the new generation. It seems the older generation are too closed minded and too cynical to see any hope. Sad but true. Detroit is going to be a better city in about 30 years, given what Duggan and others are doing now. But that’s a topic for another discussion.



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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by Rate This » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:19 am

CircleWXYZ wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:13 am
Only haters say that Detroit has no hope, when in reality, that’s far from the truth. The 1960s-1990s are long over with. The new generation is helping to rebuild this city, as it’s going to come with the new generation. It seems the older generation are too closed minded and too cynical to see any hope. Sad but true. Detroit is going to be a better city in about 30 years, given what Duggan and others are doing now. But that’s a topic for another discussion.
It won’t climb markets or become more desirable for what you are talking about though... other markets are growing too fast...



CircleWXYZ
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by CircleWXYZ » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:40 am

My point is, Detroit is still a major city and a major television market.



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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by Rate This » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:32 am

CircleWXYZ wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:40 am
My point is, Detroit is still a major city and a major television market.
Yeah but even in 1986 when 7 was sold it was grossly underperforming the other 4 circle 7’s despite being the 5th largest market... Detroit just isn’t a money maker...



fuzzpower
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by fuzzpower » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:22 am

Rebuilding? The population is still declining! It’s well under 700,000 according to estimates. The suburbs are stagnant- the outlying ones that are growing offset the declining inner ones.

I have a friend in the city. His house is nice and kept up. The neighborhood however looks like a war zone. Most of the places he shops and visits are in the suburbs, especially Dearborn.

People in this region are stuck in their ways, that’s why it’s not a moneymaker. It’s the same in Toledo.



CircleWXYZ
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by CircleWXYZ » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:54 am

fuzzpower wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:22 am
Rebuilding? The population is still declining! It’s well under 700,000 according to estimates. The suburbs are stagnant- the outlying ones that are growing offset the declining inner ones.

I have a friend in the city. His house is nice and kept up. The neighborhood however looks like a war zone. Most of the places he shops and visits are in the suburbs, especially Dearborn.

People in this region are stuck in their ways, that’s why it’s not a moneymaker. It’s the same in Toledo.
And that may change very soon.

Just because people on this board are haters and are cynical, it doesn’t mean Detroit isn’t rebuilding. It is.

It’s the older generation that’s stuck in their ways. Cynical, bitter, and negative. Racist too.

Detroit is rebuilding with the younger generation, who may not have the anger and bitterness from the riots.

Like I said, a topic for another time. There’s a lot in this.



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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by ZenithCKLW » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:28 am

Will history repeat itself? I ask the same question when I see another topic about O&O's started by the same person. Bonus if the big switch in 1994 is mentioned.

"Anything is possible" just like Hurricane Dorian reaching Alabama because it was drawn in with a sharpie. Maybe, in theory it's possible since it's not *impossible*. Don't hold out too much hope for it to come true though. Agreed with MW's response, OP may have "always said" ABC wants to own a station in Detroit, but that doesn't make it so, or make it even close to reality. The conclusion they "want" to own a station in Detroit is based on what data? "Why wouldn't they? It's a big market" is not backup proof.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by Ben Zonia » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:51 am

You have to look at Census and Market Population tricks before declaring that "Detroit" is a dead Market.

Many cities have annexed area and population between the census counting. It's a little difficult to track without a lot of research. In Michigan, it is difficult to annex area.

There have been only about two larger cities in Michigan which have annexed substantial areas in the last 60 years. Grand Rapids annexed 21 square miles around 1960, nearly doubling the area, from 24 to 45 square miles. Battle Creek annexed Battle Creek Township and is the third largest Michigan city by area.

In other nearby states, annexation is easier. Toledo, Fort Wayne, Gary, Columbus, and Indianapolis are cities which have annexed or consolidated. If we looked at just the 1960 areas of these cities, they would look demographically dramatically different than the city as a whole. The center part of the city would be smaller or stagnant in population growth.

Detroit, Flint, Saginaw, and other cities have added none or very little area since 1960, due to cities just outside the city limits, and charter townships. To prevent further annexation, Wyoming, Kentwood, and Walker incorporated as cities to prevent further annexation by Grand Rapids. Other cities are ringed by suburbs and charter townships.

The other trick in market size is adding counties to the market.

Another factor is the proximity of neighboring markets. Toledo, Flint, Lansing, Ann Arbor Radio, and even Windsor Markets limit the size of the Detroit Market, both area and populations. In more rural states and out West, there are few markets that are nearby, and they are often adding counties to the market.

So looking at the fairly stable population of the Wayne Oakland Macomb area, it is mainly "ferry ring growth" which is occurring. The central areas are declining, the outer areas are growing, often dramatically. Go out to the outlying areas of Oakland and Macomb Counties and look around if you haven't. Also, Livingston County is growing by leaps and bounds.

So you have to look at the whole picture to see what has happened and is happening.


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Re: Will history repeat itself? (Network switch)

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:10 pm

Detroit is going to be a better city in about 30 years
Three decades from now seems about right.


Rock 95.5 in Chicago is the worst sounding major market rock station in the history of corporate radio.

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