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WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
km1125
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by km1125 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:03 pm

I'm a little confused... I thought the 3.0 signals were not compatible with the 1.0 signals, so how would they broadcast on the same frequency?



szmigiel
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by szmigiel » Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:27 pm

It will carry both 3.0 and 1.0, just like currently you get all the sub channels on the same signal. The older tuners will just not be able to process the 3.0 signal and ignore it.

From more reading, the tuners will require new chipsets to work, so the chances of a software or firmware upgrade are very unlikely.
The new TVs will probably support both 3.0 and 1.0, that is most likely but still a guess.



long_time_listener
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by long_time_listener » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:30 pm

You can not get ATSC 1.0 & ATSC 3.0 into the same frequency/6MHZ bandwidth. It will be one or the other, it is physically impossible to do both.
ATSC 1.0 uses 8-VSB modulation, ATSC 3.0 uses OFDM modulation. Two very different beasts.



szmigiel
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by szmigiel » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:48 pm

Sorry you're right, my wording was bad. Won't be the same signal, but will still be board cast for at least 5 years.

"ATSC 1.0 signals will still be subject to mandatory carriage rules for television providers during the five-year simulcasting mandate; the FCC stated that voluntary carriage of 3.0 signals by television providers would be left to the marketplace. The order does require stations to provide sufficient on-air notice about transitions to ATSC 3.0 services. The FCC will not allocate a second channel to each broadcaster to enable a gradual consumer transition. Instead, it has been suggested that multiple broadcasters in each market cooperate by locating multiple degraded ATSC 1.0 services on a single transmitter. At the same time, the broadcasters would share the remaining transmitters for ATSC 3.0 transmissions. After sufficient consumer adoption, ATSC 1.0 transmissions would be abandoned, allowing stations to return to operation on their owned transmitters. It is unclear how the complications of this approach would be overcome, especially in light of spectrum reallocation in heavily populated markets. The FCC published its final rules on ATSC 3.0 to the Federal Register on February 2, 2018, and they formally take effect 30 days afterward."



Marcus
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Location: Sarnia, Ontario

Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by Marcus » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:13 pm

Could channels 2-6 (54-88 MHz) be used for ATSC broadcasts at first?



Splouge
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by Splouge » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:15 pm

Marcus wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:13 pm
Could channels 2-6 (54-88 MHz) be used for ATSC broadcasts at first?
The FCC is not giving out new frequencies for this


The only time when it would ever be necessary to be political is if our right to pursue our happiness is taken away. Otherwise, leave politics to politicians!

Tman
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by Tman » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 am

Unlike the current standard, ATSC 3.0 makes use of both over-the-air signals and your in-home broadband to deliver an experience closer to cable or satellite. I don't see the big deal about ATSC 3.0 . I have a better picture now with the current standard then I ever recieved from Comcast .



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SolarMax
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by SolarMax » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:23 am

Tman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 am
Unlike the current standard, ATSC 3.0 makes use of both over-the-air signals and your in-home broadband to deliver an experience closer to cable or satellite. I don't see the big deal about ATSC 3.0 . I have a better picture now with the current standard then I ever recieved from Comcast .
3.0 allows for over-air transmission of 4K progressive scan video, 7.1 surround oudio, multiple camera views for sports events, data, and many other features. As noted, it can be used, (if you want it to) with your internet service, to perform interactive functions, like polls, shopping etc. This also does, of course, open up the possibility for paid on-demand content as well.



Tman
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by Tman » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Gotcha . Thanks .



km1125
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by km1125 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:39 pm

long_time_listener wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:30 pm
You can not get ATSC 1.0 & ATSC 3.0 into the same frequency/6MHZ bandwidth. It will be one or the other, it is physically impossible to do both.
ATSC 1.0 uses 8-VSB modulation, ATSC 3.0 uses OFDM modulation. Two very different beasts.
That's what I thought, but I didn't know if there was some option that might offer limited 3.0 using the current 8-VSB.

Not sure why the FCC didn't factor in the current repack with temporary (years long) secondary channels for the broadcasters to migrate to 3.0. Put all their permanent 3.0 channels under Ch 34 (or something) and allow them to still use 35-45ish for the legacy 1.0 for the transition period. Give everything above 45 to the spectrum auction with dibs on 35-45 when it gets vacated.

Can't imagine the complexities when competitors have to share bandwidth to survive the transition period. Can you imagine Ford, GM and Chrysler having to share dealerships because the cities wouldn't allow new ones to be built?



km1125
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by km1125 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:32 pm

Tman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 am
Unlike the current standard, ATSC 3.0 makes use of both over-the-air signals and your in-home broadband to deliver an experience closer to cable or satellite. I don't see the big deal about ATSC 3.0 . I have a better picture now with the current standard then I ever recieved from Comcast .
Just curious what you see as a difference in the picture between the OTA signal and the Comcast signal?



YpsiGuy
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by YpsiGuy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:40 pm

I think we will see an ATSC 3.0 ultra def main channel, encoded via HEVC or a similar codec. That will leave sufficient bandwidth for subchannels and a feed of the main channel in 480i ATSC 1.0.

The old ATSC 1.0 enhanced def stream will be gone, IMO. If you want HD, you will have to buy a new box or TV.
Last edited by YpsiGuy on Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.



YpsiGuy
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by YpsiGuy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:44 pm

km1125 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:32 pm
Tman wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 am
Unlike the current standard, ATSC 3.0 makes use of both over-the-air signals and your in-home broadband to deliver an experience closer to cable or satellite. I don't see the big deal about ATSC 3.0 . I have a better picture now with the current standard then I ever recieved from Comcast .
Just curious what you see as a difference in the picture between the OTA signal and the Comcast signal?
Comcrap is compressing the living snot outta their TV channels. Their goal is to become a residential/business internet provider and cease to be a cable TV company. Their TV side shows it.



F-Squared
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by F-Squared » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:30 pm

YpsiGuy wrote:I think we will see an ATSC 3.0 ultra def main channel, encoded via HEVC or a similar codec. That will leave sufficient bandwidth for subchannels and a feed of the main channel in 480i ATSC 1.0.

The old ATSC 1.0 enhanced def stream will be gone, IMO. If you want HD, you will have to buy a new box or TV.
I'm sure they'll be able to keep their 1.0 channel at 1080i, if anything they'll just lower the bitrate.



YpsiGuy
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Re: WMYD To Host Detroit’s First ATSC 3.0 Signal

Post by YpsiGuy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:13 pm

F-Squared wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:30 pm
YpsiGuy wrote:I think we will see an ATSC 3.0 ultra def main channel, encoded via HEVC or a similar codec. That will leave sufficient bandwidth for subchannels and a feed of the main channel in 480i ATSC 1.0.

The old ATSC 1.0 enhanced def stream will be gone, IMO. If you want HD, you will have to buy a new box or TV.
I'm sure they'll be able to keep their 1.0 channel at 1080i, if anything they'll just lower the bitrate.
Very possible, or just drop it down to 720p.



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