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Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

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Deleted User 8570

Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:19 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 pm
Bryce wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:40 am

Their absolute loathing of the POTUS aside, I think their biggest reason for not funding a wall, along with other border security measures, is primarily because it's in their best interest to have as many undocumented Democrats coming into this country as possible...
You can't really set aside their absolute loathing though, as I believe it is the primary driving force behind everything the left does today. Remember when Trump last year offered up amnesty for 1.8 million illegals? Where did that go with democrats?
Simple... He pulled out of his own deal... Chuck and Nancy were ready to sign...



ftballfan
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by ftballfan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:37 pm

I voted for Trump, but I feel there's a good chance he doesn't finish his term in part due to his wall fight. I feel enough GOP representatives/senators will eventually support the Dem plan to reopen the government for a potential Trump veto to be overridden



Deleted User 8570

Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:50 pm

He could have had his wall in exchange for amnesty for the dreamers... it was his idea... then he backed out..

Why don’t we just do amnesty for those that are here COUPLED with two or three legal points of entry and registration ala Ellis Island? This problem could be dramatically curtailed with an overhaul of the methods of legal entry... you wouldn’t need a wall.



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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:55 pm

Bryce wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:40 am
bmw wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:22 am
Democrat opposition to the wall has NOTHING to do with the cost, and you're being disingenuous if you say it does. Democrats NEVER, EVER oppose ANY form of government spending, no matter how useless, if it advances a leftist cause.
Their absolute loathing of the POTUS aside, I think their biggest reason for not funding a wall, along with other border security measures, is primarily because it's in their best interest to have as many undocumented Democrats coming into this country as possible.

If 80 percent of the offspring of illegal immigrants were shown to be future Republican voters, you can rest assured there would be a wall 40 foot tall, 30 feet thick with mine fields on both sides funded immediately.

Remember too, once a wall is built, it's there and does it's job automatically. Electronic measures and physical enforcement can change depending on the directives given by those in charge.
Honest to shit, do you really believe that? Hate to break it to you but things are going blue in states like Arizona without Trump's made up hoard of illegals. Do you think this is all about jacking around with the vote as opposed to folks not being keen on the idea of flushing $5B in the shitter to keep Individual-1's base at bay? Are you really of a mind that this revolves around the possible horror of "offspring of illegal immigrants were shown to be future Republican voters"?

Sorry... if the Republican party goes up in a sad, insignificant puff of ashen smoke like some geriatric fart, don't blame anyone but yourselves. (Although that would take the skill to do a little self examination of one's own moral foundation, which as evidenced so far, Republicans seem unable to do unless there's somethin' in it for their piggy bank or just the funzies of stepping on people's necks)



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craig11152
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by craig11152 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:54 am

I'm not sure I buy Bryce's theory , hyperbole aside on size of said wall, but I don't think it's as far fetched as Lester thinks. From a long term strategic sense it's a good plan. Most American children of those immigrants likely would vote democratic.
As a theory it makes more sense than one that thinks republicans are going to disappear.


testing...testing...1...2...3...4

bmw
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by bmw » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:15 am

ftballfan wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:37 pm
I voted for Trump, but I feel there's a good chance he doesn't finish his term in part due to his wall fight. I feel enough GOP representatives/senators will eventually support the Dem plan to reopen the government for a potential Trump veto to be overridden
While it is not getting much media attention - Trump last night said that he WILL declare a national emergency if he can't get a deal done in Congress. Not maybe. Not possibly. But that he WILL do it. Now whether he''ll actually follow-through on that threat is another question entirely, but I think he will.

And once he declares a national emergency, he would presumably immediately re-open the government.

Starting to look like that is ultimately where this is headed. Then the next public discussion will be over the inevitable court battle that will follow.



Mike
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Mike » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:13 pm

Starting to look like it's exactly what he wants, everyone else be damned: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/ ... wn-1096118

When Republican Senators gather to plan an idea to end the shutdown, don't involve Democrats in the planning at all...and it's Trump who puts the kibosh on the strategy - what should one conclude other than he wants a solution that doesn't involve making a deal with Congress at all?



bmw
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by bmw » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:07 pm

Re-opening government with no guarantees would be foolish on Trump's part. The shutdown is the only leverage he has right now, and if he were to go along with some kind of deal where we open the government now and talk about the wall later, there will be NO WALL WHATSOEVER and he knows that.



Deleted User 8570

Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:29 pm

bmw wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:07 pm
Re-opening government with no guarantees would be foolish on Trump's part. The shutdown is the only leverage he has right now, and if he were to go along with some kind of deal where we open the government now and talk about the wall later, there will be NO WALL WHATSOEVER and he knows that.
And his re-election chances die which is his only concern in all this. Well said.



bmw
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by bmw » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:31 pm

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that re-election isn't in the back of his mind, but that is NOT what is driving his decision-making here. Trump believes a wall will make us safer. He campaigned on that premise. Now he's trying to deliver. Again, you can disagree with his stance, but I did believe in 2016 and still believe now that on this issue, he is fighting for what he genuinely believes needs to be done.

I find it refreshing to have a President who is using every tool at his disposal to try to deliver on some of his campaign promises despite immense pressure and hatred from those who oppose him at every turn. Most republicans would have folded like a cheap tent well before now. Not Trump.



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Bryce
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Bryce » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:56 pm

Mega Hertz wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:01 pm


Pretty sure nobody feels like getting shot at, either.
Are you suggesting that instead of a wall we just shoot people trying to cross instead?

That may prove to be quite the deterrent.

Purchased in bulk, bullets are pretty cost effective too. For all you 5 billion dollar budget hawks.


If you have a really big butt, can you get away with doing things half-assed?

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Bryce
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Bryce » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:08 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:55 pm

Honest to shit, do you really believe that?
Yes, yes I do. And, until someone can give me an explanation (preferably from their own mouths) as to why these people were all on board with the program 10 years ago and so vehemently opposed to it now, I will continue to do so.

Why does no one in the press ask this question?


If you have a really big butt, can you get away with doing things half-assed?

bmw
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by bmw » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:06 pm

Bryce wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:08 pm

Why does no one in the press ask this question?
And make Chuck or Nancy look bad? Are you nuts?

Make no mistake about it. The media has an interest in the final outcome of this and that interest overrides any thought of unbiased reporting. Just like how they show one story after another of federal workers who can't pay their bills but not a single story of families affected by drugs or murders resulting from border problems.



Mega Hertz
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:19 pm

I know. Woe is the right. The whole world is scheming against them.


Underground Sounds, Ann Arbor
"Keep Vinyl Alive!"

Mega Hertz
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Re: Predictions on how and when the shutdown ends

Post by Mega Hertz » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:22 pm

Bryce wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:56 pm
Mega Hertz wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:01 pm


Pretty sure nobody feels like getting shot at, either.
Are you suggesting that instead of a wall we just shoot people trying to cross instead?

That may prove to be quite the deterrent.

Purchased in bulk, bullets are pretty cost effective too. For all you 5 billion dollar budget hawks.
I'm actually shocked you're not for using guns instead of an almost 6 billion dollar wall. Good thing that money isn't going to something worthwhile like feeding the hungry...there might be an outcry!

I don't ever, ever...EVER want to hear conservatives whine about wasteful spending ever again. The fits that were thrown over health insurance...holy hell.

But, hey, if you think concrete passing Mexico is gonna permanently deter anyone from crossing the border...well, more power to ya.


Underground Sounds, Ann Arbor
"Keep Vinyl Alive!"

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