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Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
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MWmetalhead
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Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:42 am

These useless lumps of crap failed to scrutinize MDOT's absurd claim that an ASPHALT-surfaced Hall Rd. in Macomb County will have a 20 year life span!!!

The current road is made of concrete and fell into horrible disrepair after 20 years. We're supposed to believe a crappier material such as asphalt will last 20 years??? Never mind the fact I-75 through Troy and Madison Heights is in horrible condition after just 10 or so years from the last major reconstruction. Or the fact I-94 through Roseville and Harrison Twp. already has cracks and is bumpy in spots after 3 - 4 years from the last major construction job.

I think most members of the general public could do a better job at asking questions of our government officials than the clueless, lazy buffoons who all too often populate newsrooms in the Detroit region.

Let's see if The Detroit News, WWJ, or any of the people at WJBK/WDIV/WXYZ will actually do a decent job with this news story, or if they'll simply regurgitate MDOT's misinformation like the Freep chose to do.


Fire Blashill!!!!

sirrealone
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by sirrealone » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:14 am

Yeah, I have thought that asphalt is a strange choice since I first started reading about this project last year. I know that asphalt can be made more durable by installing more depth.

I also wonder if the eventual repair process might have been taken into consideration. The original Hall Road was installed around 20 years ago, and it didn't take too long before parts started to crumble. It got so bad, so fast that they could never do an asphalt overlay, simply because you can't lay asphalt on top of a crumbling concrete road without it immediately failing. You have to first replace the failing areas, and there were so many that it could never be done. With asphalt, even if it starts to crumble in spots, it will still accept an overlay that would then extend the life of the roadway for a few more years. Typically an asphalt road will accept 2-3 overlays throughout it's life.

I guess time will tell.



Circle Seven
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by Circle Seven » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:25 am

What would be really nice if when a road falls apart a few years after it's been rebuilt, that both print and broadcast media camp out at the contractor's office with "What the fudge???" questions. Publically outing the contractors for shoddy work will either end the crappy work, or end the contracts. I can name a certain contractor who's trucks say a city in Macomb County, who's cement has started crumbling in 5 years on several freeway projects. Crumbling cement in the middle of the slab is shoddy workmanship in my opinion.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:37 am

What would be really nice if when a road falls apart a few years after it's been rebuilt, that both print and broadcast media camp out at the contractor's office with "What the fudge???" questions. Publically outing the contractors for shoddy work will either end the crappy work, or end the contracts.
AMEN!! Could not agree more.

What also would be nice would be FOIA requests - by the media - for the awful contracts the State of MI has executed over the years, and then have those contract specifications reviewed by experts in the field.


Fire Blashill!!!!

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SolarMax
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by SolarMax » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:53 pm

Confronted with the frequent questions about deteriorating road surfaces, the stock answer from the nice lady in the Yellow Hard Hat has been, and probably always will be that well, we have freeze-thaw cycles that create potholes and cracks blah blah blah. Never mind that Ontario and Ohio and every other northern entity somehow manages to not have the same persistent road problems as Michigan. I've noticed elsewhere, Massachusetts for example, that asphalt surfaced roads have a regular program of refurbishment every few years. Regular, proper maintenance lessens the need for the lousy patchwork repair that happens here under the guise of "construction." In Lansing the short-term fix rules. Long term vision, on this or anything else, is not an understood concept.
And, of course, there's the issue of excessively heavy trucking that doesn't seem to get factored into these jobs.



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RingtailedFox
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by RingtailedFox » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:00 pm

thanks for the compliments on ontario's roads, but the provincially-maintained roads here in southwestern ontario are often pretty cracked and pothole-filled (Highways 3, 77 and Highway 401 east of Tilbury)... especially the municipally-owned roads in Windsor. Those are becoming like Detroit's. though, chatham-kent is doing an amazing job on their vast municipal road network, taking better care of former highway 2 than the province did....

i think what helps is that since about 2005, Ontario has been surfacing its 400-series highways (and highway 3 from oldcastle to essex) with concrete instead of the usual asphalt, since it lasts far longer when done properly (sure, it costs more to lay down and tear up, but that's offset by the dramatically-lower maintenance costs, and let's not forget asphalt's petroleum-based, requiring tar and oil, where concrete doesn't need those expensive resources).

for example: Highway 401 was completely rebuilt and repaved with concrete in stages from 2005 to 2012 from Widnsor to Tilbury (about 35 miles). It still looks amazing. Now, what helps is that over bridges, those remain asphalt for expansion and contraction due to heat and moisture changes. I think Illinois does the opposite (concrete only on bridges, asphalt everywhere else), so that might be an interesting comparison.

i'm not sure why michigan's roads look more cratered than the moon.... my only theories are substandard materials and possibly improper installation and maintenance...


~ The Legendary Raccoon-Fox has spoken!

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Plate Cap
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by Plate Cap » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:38 pm

I'm certainly no expert in any regard in paving technology, but I do recall reading that the Mackinac Bridge roadway surface, a number of years ago, was a focus of an ongoing study by asphalt industry technical groups. Lots of visits and samples were taken; apparently, it lasted WAY, WAY longer than it 'should have', and they wanted to know why (sarcasm alert: so they don't screw up and put down another road that lasts that long).

That road is certainly the poster child for temperature variations and freeze/thaw cycles, but it does have the benefit of never seeing salt.

Otherwise, I certainly don't know enough to comment further or argue the decisions made by the road people with only an outside view and no raw data. There may be reasons I'm not seeing.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

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Plate Cap
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by Plate Cap » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:50 pm

SolarMax wrote: I've noticed elsewhere, Massachusetts for example, that asphalt surfaced roads have a regular program of refurbishment every few years.
Perhaps a benefit of a state sometimes referred to as Taxachussets?

Everyone has pet places "The State" could be spending our money. A common denominator is roads. We could have wonderful roads if we chose to pay for them.

We are a rust-belt state with a slowly recovering 'demolished' tax base, unemployment levels that are sometimes a result of people finding it economically feasible to forego work and instead take public support, several waves of workers fleeing the state for opportunities elsewhere, a wrecked manufacturing economy that simply paid workers more than the job was worth until simple economy took over and stopped it, the children of those workers vowing to not get into the same mess, overall nasty weather for about 5 months straight every year, a 'tourist based' employment system in many areas that skyrockets to 14-20% unemployment from November to May, four sizeable cities that are a complete drain on the State's funds, a corrections system with a voracious appetite, a State retirement and health care system that agreed with worker's unions and made promises that the system can't support, and simply too many social programs.


The box that many broadcasters won’t look outside of was made in 1969 and hasn’t changed significantly since.

sfpcc
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by sfpcc » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:05 pm

[quote="Plate Cap"]I'm certainly no expert in any regard in paving technology, but I do recall reading that the Mackinac Bridge roadway surface, a number of years ago, was a focus of an ongoing study by asphalt industry technical groups. Lots of visits and samples were taken; apparently, it lasted WAY, WAY longer than it 'should have', and they wanted to know why (sarcasm alert: so they don't screw up and put down another road that lasts that long).

That road is certainly the poster child for temperature variations and freeze/thaw cycles, but it does have the benefit of never seeing salt.

Otherwise, I certainly don't know enough to comment further or argue the decisions made by the road people with only an outside view and no raw data. There may be reasons I'm not seeing.[/quote]

Much of the Mackinaw Bridge road surface is a basically a steel grate, which is unlike any road surface in Michigan.



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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:11 pm

Plate Cap wrote:
SolarMax wrote: I've noticed elsewhere, Massachusetts for example, that asphalt surfaced roads have a regular program of refurbishment every few years.
Perhaps a benefit of a state sometimes referred to as Taxachussets?

Everyone has pet places "The State" could be spending our money. A common denominator is roads. We could have wonderful roads if we chose to pay for them.

We are a rust-belt state with a slowly recovering 'demolished' tax base, unemployment levels that are sometimes a result of people finding it economically feasible to forego work and instead take public support, several waves of workers fleeing the state for opportunities elsewhere, a wrecked manufacturing economy that simply paid workers more than the job was worth until simple economy took over and stopped it, the children of those workers vowing to not get into the same mess, overall nasty weather for about 5 months straight every year, a 'tourist based' employment system in many areas that skyrockets to 14-20% unemployment from November to May, four sizeable cities that are a complete drain on the State's funds, a corrections system with a voracious appetite, a State retirement and health care system that agreed with worker's unions and made promises that the system can't support, and simply too many social programs.
Flint, Detroit, Saginaw... what's the other one?



phcapstick
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Re: Horrible journalism by the Free Press (shocking, I know)

Post by phcapstick » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:52 am

Seems to me when this road project was announced it was just intended to be a temporary resurfacing.

There is a much larger rebuild planned for the future, ground up with median work as well.



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