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Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

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Deleted User 15062

Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Deleted User 15062 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:45 pm

JGP1954 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:15 pm
BASProShop wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:47 pm
If my memory is correct, they didn't move the transmitter to Luna Pier. They moved the city of license to Luna Pier. That allowed them to move the transmitter itself to Toledo (on K100's tower). But they needed to use a directional antenna that lowered the signal over Toledo to protect WDFM Defiance at 98.1.
Maybe I've been out of the business too long, but I've never heard of a directional FM broadcast tower or signal. Most AM stations are directional by design to protect other stations with adjacent or close frequencies. That's why they usually have multiple towers. While FM stations have only one tower, strategically placed. Generally speaking, a FM broadcast signal broadcast in a 360 degree pattern emanating from the tower. Back when WTWR moved their transmitter closer to Toledo, they were attempting to cover Toledo better with their signal. As I recall, the old Monroe signal barely reached Bowling Green. Also if my memory is correct, WVMO, i.e.,WTWR, broadcast in monaural back in the day. Back then, some FM stations broadcast in mono because the signal would carry further. However, some FM radios wouldn't pick up a mono signal.
Never hear of WCSX? They are directional, nulling near Monroe.



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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by JGP1954 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:35 am

Every signal is subject to typography, atmospheric conditions, and other conditions I'm not familiar with. That could be the reason for the WCSX null. And, where is the WCSX tower site, anyway?



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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by JGP1954 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:27 am

More info on broadcast signal patterns can be found at www.radio-locator.com. And, the WCSM broadcast pattern shows no null toward Monroe. Again, other conditions could affect their signal in that area. According to the Radio-Locator drawing, it appears the WCSX primary signal weakens toward Monroe, but its not an engineered null like many AMs have. Also again, I'm not an engineer, but I still maintain there's no such thing as a directional FM signal. I've never seen one in forty years. I'd like a broadcast engineer to comment on this subject.



Deleted User 15062

Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Deleted User 15062 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:03 pm

OK, here's one.
Image



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Mark Elliott
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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Mark Elliott » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:52 pm

JGP1954 wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:27 am
I'm not an engineer, but I still maintain there's no such thing as a directional FM signal. I've never seen one in forty years.
https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gea ... fm-antenna
I'm not an engineer either but I read in Radio World where they wrote:The use of directional arrays in FM broadcasting has increased greatly in 30 years. Especially in the NCE reserved band, a DA can increase the operating power of a station significantly while still respecting the interference ratios that are at the heart of an effective regulatory scheme.



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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Gary Fullhart » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:45 pm

JGP1954 - I'm a broadcast engineer. Directional FM antennas are real. They are not that common and are not as effective as AM directionals, but they do exist. They usually just consist of extra passive elements attached to the tower to keep the pattern from being circular, just as the tower itself distorts the pattern. WKKO has a little bit of a null to the north, from back in the days when it was owned by Booth and they also owned Detroit stations. WXKR sends more signal east and west than north/south. That allowed them to move closer to Toledo from Port Clinton. And WMIM (98.3 Monroe) has a little bit of a null to the southwest, to protect 98.1 in Defiance.



Deleted User 15062

Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Deleted User 15062 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:13 pm

Gary Fullhart wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:45 pm
JGP1954 - I'm a broadcast engineer. Directional FM antennas are real. They are not that common and are not as effective as AM directionals, but they do exist. They usually just consist of extra passive elements attached to the tower to keep the pattern from being circular, just as the tower itself distorts the pattern. WKKO has a little bit of a null to the north, from back in the days when it was owned by Booth and they also owned Detroit stations. WXKR sends more signal east and west than north/south. That allowed them to move closer to Toledo from Port Clinton. And WMIM (98.3 Monroe) has a little bit of a null to the southwest, to protect 98.1 in Defiance.
Thank you Gary.

JGP- It's not like how WLQR-AM was directional. WTOD almost looked like a strange lily from it's side view. The fact that an FM nulls, means it's directional. This is opposed to nondirectional.



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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:01 pm

Never hear of WCSX? They are directional, nulling near Monroe.
WCSX is licensed omni. The signal doesn't sound so hot in Monroe on some receivers because adjacent channel WXKR is enhanced by Lake Erie.

WXKR's signal definitely outperforms predicted contours in its northern null. I used to be able to pick them up on a boombox on the south side of Ann Arbor 24/7 simply by tuning to "94.4 MHz" as opposed to 94.5 MHz (to avoid spillover from WCSX). Wouldn't surprise me if their directional pattern doesn't quite perform in accordance with licensed specs.

Another great example of a directional FM signal is WWWW-FM in Ann Arbor.

By the way, WMIM-FM actually has a fairly deep null to the west and southwest. However, that is another station where actual reception in the null seems to outperform FCC projection. I say that because I've never had any issue picking up 98.3 FM in the Bowling Green area in my car.

https://www.fccdata.org/?facid=&call=WM ... d=&lang=en



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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by WOHO » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:08 pm

When they were WVMO, and early Tower 98, where was the transmitter tower located? Still in Monroe County, not Jerusalem Township, no?



Deleted User 15062

Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Deleted User 15062 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:21 am

WOHO wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:08 pm
When they were WVMO, and early Tower 98, where was the transmitter tower located? Still in Monroe County, not Jerusalem Township, no?
All indications show that WVMO ,"The Voice of Monroe" as Hick Hits all the way to the Cumulus purchase- the TX was just south of Monroe.



senpaisai
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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by senpaisai » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:07 pm

WOHO wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:08 pm
When they were WVMO, and early Tower 98, where was the transmitter tower located? Still in Monroe County, not Jerusalem Township, no?
I believe it was located near the corner of Dunbar and La Plaisance in Monroe county - just west of I-75 ...

There was a service drive just past the railroad tracks (heading east) that led to the transmitter.

That was before the relocation to Luna Pier ...



Deleted User 15062

Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Deleted User 15062 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:38 am

Heathcliff wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:45 am
Country seems likely to stay. I see a new name though.
Not sure where my post went... But i think "My country 98" has a nice sound to it.



JGP1954
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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by JGP1954 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:35 pm

senpaisai wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:07 pm
WOHO wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:08 pm
When they were WVMO, and early Tower 98, where was the transmitter tower located? Still in Monroe County, not Jerusalem Township, no?
I believe it was located near the corner of Dunbar and La Plaisance in Monroe county - just west of I-75 ...

There was a service drive just past the railroad tracks (heading east) that led to the transmitter.

That was before the relocation to Luna Pier ...
I don't recall, but I believe this location might be correct. When I was working at early Tower 98, I don't recall anyone mentioning a tower relocation plan. And honestly, Lesnick had many other issues to deal with. As far as FM nulls are concerned, I indicated that there are natural occurring nulls. But, every FM station I ever heard of is nondirectional or omni, and one has one broadcast tower.



JGP1954
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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by JGP1954 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:44 pm

TeddyBear wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:03 pm
OK, here's one.
Image
I doubt this is an accurate depiction of this station's engineering sketch of their signal. However, maybe Chicago causes some type of natural null. There are dozens of stations there. Possibly, there is such an entity as a FM null. But, FM nulls are very rare. Until someone here mentioned one, I have never heard of one. And, why would they exist? The FCC already has guidelines in place to separate frequencies, etc.



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Robert Faygo
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Re: Will 98.3 in Monroe Re-brand or Flip?

Post by Robert Faygo » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:00 pm

The Omni vs. Directional FM Antenna
In the real world, most antennas are in fact directional

https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gea ... fm-antenna


Wellllll... la de frickin da

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