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Another horrendous book for Q105

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fuzzpower
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by fuzzpower » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:47 pm

Out of market stations used to be counted, and would show up. They are still rated, so why their owners paid for their Toledo numbers seems odd. I don’t listen to WJLB- do they have any Toledo businesses advertising except perhaps the casino? Doubt it.



ftballfan
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by ftballfan » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:57 am

fuzzpower wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:47 pm
Out of market stations used to be counted, and would show up. They are still rated, so why their owners paid for their Toledo numbers seems odd. I don’t listen to WJLB- do they have any Toledo businesses advertising except perhaps the casino? Doubt it.
iHeart seems to be extremely inconsistent in regards to paying for additional markets outside of their own:
1. WLLZ appears in the Ann Arbor book. However, none of the other iHeart Detroit stations appear.
2. WSRW and WBFX appear in the Muskegon book, but not WBCT, WMAX, WOOD, and WSNX (the latter two are licensed to Muskegon itself!)
3. WMAX appears in the Kalamazoo book, but not any of the other GR iHeart stations (WBCT and WSRW each put a much better signal into Kalamazoo than WMAX)
4. WBCT and WSRW appear in the Lansing book, which makes sense considering their signals (side note: WBCT beats WQTX and WLMI, both of which are based in Lansing!)
5. WKQI appears in the Flint book



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by Myron Falwell » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:01 pm




TeddyBear
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by TeddyBear » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Radio Sucks wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:07 am
WZRC 1067 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:57 pm
Warm 105, WWWM Sylvania/Toledo.
"Toledo You found us! Your at work station, Warm 105"
" Does another station make you feel like you are drowning, in music that's too loud for the office or around the house?, make the switch to warm 105."
It will never happen... makes too much sense.
How many 54+'s go to bars? Trendy restaurants? Get insured by Geico's minimalist insurance? Sure, they have some expendable income, but soft AC is too far into the "Medicare Crowd" to have potential advertisers be interested. Luxury Advertisers are fewer and farther in between. CMLS stockholders would find that format and demo to be poisonous to the stock price, while Andy would potentially be replaced for backward moving money flow. Corporate radio is ONLY about money, when you strip everything else away... especially those on the stock market.

"Warm 105" is not gonna happen on any FM or HD1 signal. I also do not see WQQO being replaced by the relocated WWWM calls. Keep playing armchair PD guys, cause it's only going to be your fantasy.



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by Myron Falwell » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:54 pm

I have to ask, and this is serious: of what value are the WWWM calls to the Toledo market? Or WLQR? I really don’t think anyone is itching to bring “3WM” back to the market so it’s parking on “Love 105” is quite unnecessary.

Even with diaries, call letters shouldn’t be necessary when logging stations, they should be counting branding.



fuzzpower
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by fuzzpower » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:16 pm

More people 54+ go to bars than you may think.



TeddyBear
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by TeddyBear » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:28 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:16 pm
More people 54+ go to bars than you may think.
You missed the point. The point was that potential advertisers are rarely interested in advertising with anyone, other than the mainstream audiences, due to higher reach and more spendable income. The issue is that stockholders will not increase income from this group also. Therefore, the stockholders are not pleased. Who cares about how many people I believe go to a bar. It's not about anyone but the business looking to advertise, along with the stockholders looking to make the stock price go up.



TeddyBear
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by TeddyBear » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:43 pm

Myron Falwell wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:54 pm
I have to ask, and this is serious: of what value are the WWWM calls to the Toledo market? Or WLQR? I really don’t think anyone is itching to bring “3WM” back to the market so it’s parking on “Love 105” is quite unnecessary.

Even with diaries, call letters shouldn’t be necessary when logging stations, they should be counting branding.
Historical calls are what our industry thinks people remember emotionally. The Dickey brothers believed this immensely. They originally made 106.5 to be WMHE, the same calls as 92.5 previously. Then 106.5 became something else as WRWK, then later became WTOD. They still feel that they will draw emotional responses from memories of old call letters. I am shocked that WOHO was never reused or resurrected. Problem is, would that also require Dr. Gold or Bill Stewart to be on it? WKLR (Cooler 99) was also never reused too. For an urban station back in the original Charlie Chuck days, that would have been the equivalent to all the other calls being reused. So this clearly is a white station-only phenomenon... at least in the Toledo DMA.



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Myron Falwell
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by Myron Falwell » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:08 pm

TeddyBear wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:43 pm
Myron Falwell wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:54 pm
I have to ask, and this is serious: of what value are the WWWM calls to the Toledo market? Or WLQR? I really don’t think anyone is itching to bring “3WM” back to the market so it’s parking on “Love 105” is quite unnecessary.

Even with diaries, call letters shouldn’t be necessary when logging stations, they should be counting branding.
Historical calls are what our industry thinks people remember emotionally. The Dickey brothers believed this immensely. They originally made 106.5 to be WMHE, the same calls as 92.5 previously. Then 106.5 became something else as WRWK, then later became WTOD. They still feel that they will draw emotional responses from memories of old call letters. I am shocked that WOHO was never reused or resurrected. Problem is, would that also require Dr. Gold or Bill Stewart to be on it? WKLR (Cooler 99) was also never reused too. For an urban station back in the original Charlie Chuck days, that would have been the equivalent to all the other calls being reused. So this clearly is a white station-only phenomenon... at least in the Toledo DMA.
The basic mentality of callsign parking is so a radio station chain doesn't see a competing chain take a discarded callsign and use it to their advantage, ironically, what the Dickeys DID do with WMHE and WLQR (I wouldn't count WWWM, it was a discarded Cleveland callsign, but still one that Lew and John were eager to reuse).

Then I look at what Cumulus did to the WRQX calls... not only moving them to AM 600 Solon and displacing that station's original WSOM callsign, but totally rebranding it as "AM 600 WRQX." Why? WRQX wasn't really worth preserving, 107.3 Washington DC was known almost entirely as "Mix 107.3" for a good 29 years, in a format no one else has wanted to take up after EMF took over that signal.



TeddyBear
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by TeddyBear » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:47 pm

Remember that WMHE was not a Midwestern Broadcasting (later became Cumulus in 1998) set of calls. It was a Dickey Sr. Property, with WOHO and WWWM FM and later WWWM-AM replacing WOHO. I also would have mentioned WTOD, formerly 1560, parked and now on 106.5 Delta. Unfortunately, I do not remember the original call letters of 96.9, when Cumulus won the auction on it. Maybe it was WMHE too, before 106.5? 96.9 later became WXQQ, then became WNKL.

By the way Ron Finn, former PD of 3WM and Star.... Gretchen said you said "hi." "Hi" back. I know you will see this.



Toledo Radio Died
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by Toledo Radio Died » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:13 pm

Toledo could definitely use another AC station again, 101.5 has pretty much had this market all to itself for too long. Something like 70’s to Now Soft AC. Speaking of the ratings I can remember back in the early-mid 2000’s 105.5 was mostly in the 5 share when it came to the ratings. 106.7 WZRC exactly like that YouTube video you had posted on here.



Radio Sucks
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by Radio Sucks » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:26 am

A person who does seem some trees but is missing the forest wrote:How many 54+'s go to bars? Trendy restaurants? Get insured by Geico's minimalist insurance? Sure, they have some expendable income, but soft AC is too far into the "Medicare Crowd" to have potential advertisers be interested. Luxury Advertisers are fewer and farther in between.
Let me play devil's advocate - How many 54+ vote? Make health care choices? I know of one 50+ heavy station who's number one advertiser sells medical marijuana. Bars and restaurants are the low hanging fruit. There are plenty of advertisers looking to reach the "baby boomer" crowd. Most of them are now on social media, with varying ROI.

But more importantly, why do you feel that the "Soft AC" is so demographically limited? WRME in Chicago, an oldies based soft AC, is just outside the Top Ten(6+) in the market, and collects enough 40+ audience to be very competitive in that 25-54 battle for advertising.
Another broadcasting genius wrote:So no more quarterlies.
Technically, true. However, this is only an adjustment in the way the "Arbitrends" were processed and weighted. Nielsen did this to make all Top 100 markets have the same ability to track things month to month without losing accreditation in the diary markets. So monthly trends are replaced by 3 month average complete reports. Credit newer faster computers.



TeddyBear
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by TeddyBear » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:38 pm

Radio Sucks wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:26 am
A person who does seem some trees but is missing the forest wrote:How many 54+'s go to bars? Trendy restaurants? Get insured by Geico's minimalist insurance? Sure, they have some expendable income, but soft AC is too far into the "Medicare Crowd" to have potential advertisers be interested. Luxury Advertisers are fewer and farther in between.
Let me play devil's advocate - How many 54+ vote? Make health care choices? I know of one 50+ heavy station who's number one advertiser sells medical marijuana. Bars and restaurants are the low hanging fruit. There are plenty of advertisers looking to reach the "baby boomer" crowd. Most of them are now on social media, with varying ROI.

But more importantly, why do you feel that the "Soft AC" is so demographically limited? WRME in Chicago, an oldies based soft AC, is just outside the Top Ten(6+) in the market, and collects enough 40+ audience to be very competitive in that 25-54 battle for advertising.
Another broadcasting genius wrote:So no more quarterlies.
Technically, true. However, this is only an adjustment in the way the "Arbitrends" were processed and weighted. Nielsen did this to make all Top 100 markets have the same ability to track things month to month without losing accreditation in the diary markets. So monthly trends are replaced by 3 month average complete reports. Credit newer faster computers.
First off, Lite 93.9 WLIT is a Soft AC. Notice how far down it is in the ratings. The Waukeegan and Zion stations beat them. Also said, oldies and soft rock are alittle different. Classic hits (like Huey Lewis and the news, covering a wider range of decades), not oldies on 87.5, which is what MeTV FM is. That's allot different. Both stations have similar aural coverage areas. 25-54 is not exactly the Soft AC demo. Research shows this, and continually had shown this for years.

As for social media, many older people do not wish to use social media, as most still have flip phones. They admit to being scared of modern technology from news stories and simple change.

Remember, we are not dealing with 25-54... 54+ only.

Also remember, outside of the Toledo metro, it's all rural, where 3G and above does not exist, except in a few circumstances. Same for high speed internet. Add in the elderly who have limited incomes to the mix, you begin to see why advertisers are not excited by the over 54 crowd.

My BF is 73 and refuses anything internet. He was around technology as a commercial pilot. Another prime example.

Once again, it's not about what I feel or think. Stratford Research had the facts. Now Neilson does.



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WZRC 1067
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by WZRC 1067 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:30 am

Warm 93.9 never caught on in Indy, but signal had a lot to do with that. I think the imaging would sound good though. The River is too loud, we need a true soft station.

So, I'll shift gears. What about active rock? Something like Cumulus's 96.5 in Cinci and 93.9 indy. Would be cool to see a true competitor to WIOT on a decent signal, without hurting XKR. Not The Zone 4.0 or whatever or lest we forget, crappy ass Rock 106. 105.5 needs something new


Cumulus, Either Sell 106.5 Toledo or flip it. The Ticket's long since expired.

CurlyHoward
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Re: Another horrendous book for Q105

Post by CurlyHoward » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:33 am

Active rock ain't happening in Toledo. A station would play VH, Alice in Chains, AC/DC and Metallica (like the very last version of the Zone) and thus WOULD hurt XKR, or would only play modern drop-D dirges from bands with names like "Gumberdudge" and "Ashes Of A Thankful Never" alongside Shinedown and no one would listen.

IOT's branding and legacy are too strong. Otherwise stuff over the past few years like losing Grizzly and Pyke to XKR and continuing to run stale old Boob and Tom in mornings would have hurt them more. And XKR's jocks and music are solid for what this market wants. No room for a third rock station around here.



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