Flint TV Stations and their horrible signals.

[MrJeffrey2020]

There's so many Flint TV stations that have a horrible signal on an antenna. I live in Lapeer and I should have no problem receiving 12 or 5, but they have the worst 1.0 signals. Just an assumption but I think these stations have deals with the cable companies around the area to FORCE people into paying for their channels and by having the worst signals ever. F That. ATSC 3.0 sounds good on paper but they will probably make you pay a fee just to watch those ones too. Not everyone wants to pay $200 a month for cable.

[Mega Hertz]

There's so many Flint TV stations that have a horrible signal on an antenna. I live in Lapeer and I should have no problem receiving 12 or 5, but they have the worst 1.0 signals. Just an assumption but I think these stations have deals with the cable companies around the area to FORCE people into paying for their channels and by having the worst signals ever. F That. ATSC 3.0 sounds good on paper but they will probably make you pay a fee just to watch those ones too. Not everyone wants to pay $200 a month for cable.

I'm surprised to see this. From Lapeer? That's weird. I live in Brighton and pull a few different Lansing stations with ease.

[MikeBear]

There's so many Flint TV stations that have a horrible signal on an antenna. I live in Lapeer and I should have no problem receiving 12 or 5, but they have the worst 1.0 signals. Just an assumption but I think these stations have deals with the cable companies around the area to FORCE people into paying for their channels and by having the worst signals ever. F That. ATSC 3.0 sounds good on paper but they will probably make you pay a fee just to watch those ones too. Not everyone wants to pay $200 a month for cable.

Channel 12's signal is on RF12, that means you need a High-VHF antenna to receive it. The tower for it is located just slightly North-East of Chesaning. As for channel 5, that's on RF30, which is UHF, so you need a UHF antenna for it. It's also one of the strongest stations in our DMA. The tower for that is located in Indiantown, which is slightly South-East of the Zilwaukee Bridge.

So, the antenna for channel 12 would need to be pointed NorthWEST for you, but for channel 5, you'd need to point much more North - Northwest.

That is, depending where exactly you live in Lapeer

12's tower: https://goo.gl/maps/ttuWNWwWwBovc758A

5's tower: https://goo.gl/maps/jDksGEzEb2hLvS2m7

[audiophile]

With a decent antenna channel 12 is fine. 5 and 49 on the other hand, not even scan, even when band is open.

[Ben Zonia]

One of the best illustrations of why new and improved is not improved in many ways.

[MWmetalhead]

TV stations earn additional retransmission fee income whenever a new cable, sat or streaming subscriber is added.

So, yes, they do indeed have financial incentive to make free OTA reception difficult.

With the possible exception of WEYI, OTA reception in Lapeer County is going to be difficult unless you have an outdoor mounted antenna in proper working order. Except for WEYI, all the transmitting towers are about 35 to 40 miles away from the center of the county. That used to be doable in the analog area but that's not the case in the DTV era. Detroit market stations are even further away - 50+ miles.

[Ben Zonia]

TV stations earn additional retransmission fee income whenever a new cable, sat or streaming subscriber is added.

So, yes, they do indeed have financial incentive to make free OTA reception difficult.

With the possible exception of WEYI, OTA reception in Lapeer County is going to be difficult unless you have an outdoor mounted antenna in proper working order. Except for WEYI, all the transmitting towers are about 35 to 40 miles away from the center of the county. That used to be doable in the analog area but that's not the case in the DTV era. Detroit market stations are even further away - 50+ miles.

Yes, and 19, 23, and 56 are not good either because of the distance and terrain shadowing. Both U of M and CMU were short sighted in not trying harder to make Channel 28 sustainable. The Goodrich tower is obviously an excellent site. The W244EN signal with just 250 watts demonstrates this dramatically.

WEYI had to go up to 1400 feet to also hit Midland with a City Grade signal, and to serve the shadow areas around the rivers and streams in the Flint River Watershed Area. The South Branch starts near Oxford in Oakland County, and that area has much shadowing also.

The City of Lapeer is barely over 40 miles to most Detroit TV stations. It seems further due to travel distance and terrain shadowing. Only Northern Lapeer County would be over 50 miles. I'd demonstrate this but TV Fool is not working for me.

It finally loaded. I don't know if this link will work though.

https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrap ... 1666d8f1af

[Martin Stett]

Both U of M and CMU were short sighted in not trying harder to make Channel 28 sustainable.

U of M was uninterested in anything occurring outside of the sacred precincts of Ann Arbor.
CMU wanted that bandwidth money to hire more deans.

WDCQ is doing a great job of filling the void they left. It's in Bad Axe, so point due north.

[Ben Zonia]

U of M was uninterested in anything occurring outside of the sacred precincts of Ann Arbor.
CMU wanted that bandwidth money to hire more deans.

I think if they had ever got WUOM-TV Channel 58 on the air near Cedar Bend Drive on what is now the North Campus, even though it is closer to WTVS than WFUM was, it would still be on the air. WKAR-TV 23 at MSU has to have always been a thorn in their side. Actually WMSB 10 had a decent signal in Ann Arbor, so that just rubbed it in more from 1959 to 1972.

[NoozDude]

With the possible exception of WEYI, OTA reception in Lapeer County is going to be difficult unless you have an outdoor mounted antenna in proper working order. Except for WEYI, all the transmitting towers are about 35 to 40 miles away from the center of the county. That used to be doable in the analog area but that's not the case in the DTV era. Detroit market stations are even further away - 50+ miles.

Thanks MW! Maybe you can help clarify. When (IF) ATSC 3.0 is fully operational in the Flint/Tri Cities market, doesn't the plan call for all of the stations to be transmitting from the same tower (WBSF) which means someone with an OTA antenna would just have to point in just one direction?
Or am I totally confused?

[MikeBear]

With the possible exception of WEYI, OTA reception in Lapeer County is going to be difficult unless you have an outdoor mounted antenna in proper working order. Except for WEYI, all the transmitting towers are about 35 to 40 miles away from the center of the county. That used to be doable in the analog area but that's not the case in the DTV era. Detroit market stations are even further away - 50+ miles.

Thanks MW! Maybe you can help clarify. When (IF) ATSC 3.0 is fully operational in the Flint/Tri Cities market, doesn't the plan call for all of the stations to be transmitting from the same tower (WBSF) which means someone with an OTA antenna would just have to point in just one direction?
Or am I totally confused?

Right NOW they are all on the WBSF tower, because we are in the "Lighthouse" period with both 1.0 and 3.0 broadcasts. Once they ALL become ATSC 3.0, they'll likely move BACK to their original towers.

[Ben Zonia]

The Willard Rd. site itself is also an excellent one.

The present WBSF pattern has a deep null to the South toward half the market. It is only about 5 kW ERP in the null. Even a typical Translator LPTV ERP would be 15 kW. You really can't depend on contours to evaluate the signal.

[MWmetalhead]

Regarding the viability of PBS on channel 28, bear in mind that in virtually all of that former station's service area, one and sometimes two other PBS stations were carried on cable and satellite. So, PBS stations donations from that region were split multiple ways.

Compare that to GR or Kalamazoo, where WGVU/WGVK has been the only station available on cable or over the air for decades, or Lansing where WKAR is the only available station.

It does seem an Ann Arbor based signal might've given Michigan Television some additional legitimacy (Ann Arbor's WUOM radio is usually the top rated non commercial FM station in the Detroit market), which perhaps might've made it more competitive vis-a-vis WTVS.

The programming WTVS airs during fundraising is often rotten, but evidently the donor class likes it.

In the 2000s, did WFUM-TV increase its juice at some point? Reception with an ordinary indoor antenna was surprisingly decent in the NW part of Warren. Comcast didn't carry the station there (but did carry it next door in Madison Heights).

[Ben Zonia]

Regarding the viability of PBS on channel 28, bear in mind that in virtually all of that former station's service area, one and sometimes two other PBS stations were carried on cable and satellite. So, PBS stations donations from that region were split multiple ways.

Compare that to GR or Kalamazoo, where WGVU/WGVK has been the only station available on cable or over the air for decades, or Lansing where WKAR is the only available station.

It does seem an Ann Arbor based signal might've given Michigan Television some additional legitimacy (Ann Arbor's WUOM radio is usually the top rated non commercial FM station in the Detroit market), which perhaps might've made it more competitive vis-a-vis WTVS.

The programming WTVS airs during fundraising is often rotten, but evidently the donor class likes it.

In the 2000s, did WFUM-TV increase its juice at some point? Reception with an ordinary indoor antenna was surprisingly decent in the NW part of Warren. Comcast didn't carry the station there (but did carry it next door in Madison Heights).

They did replace the antenna at some point. But it always had at least a marginal signal around Detroit. I saw 28 in Lincoln Park with a modest antenna. And in a Radio Shack in Clinton Twp.

WFUM 28 was really late to the game, well after the cable systems had as I recall three PBS stations already. But until WFUM 28 came on, WJRT 12 had to carry Sesame Street because even with cable, plenty of viewers didn't have cable, and WJRT stepped up to the plate to fill the void. The OTA void exists again.

[Ben Zonia]

I was trying to find out more information on WUOM-TV. The Construction Permit was actually for Channel 26. Funding was withdrawn, and it was never built. Later, many allotments that weren't built were moved. The Educational Channel allotment was later moved to Channel 58, designated *58 in the Table of Allotments. The original Construction Permit on 26 was granted with a 1047 foot tower. That would have taken up a significant footprint on the North Campus. Many buildings probably wouldn't be where they are if it had been built. A reasonable estimate would be 35 acres. I couldn't find the ERP proposed, at the time, 175 kW ERP was typical. It was granted in November, 1953.