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The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Discussion pertaining to the Tri-Cities, Flint, Mt. Pleasant, and Bad Axe
Clay
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The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by Clay » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:40 am

WWCK 1570am and W297CG 107.3fm



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MWmetalhead
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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:10 am

Seems like a decent programming move to me.

However, ditching country from 95.1 in favor of classic hits might've been an even better move.

https://www.supertalk1570.com/
https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?c ... service=FX

Does Alpha Media give a rat's ass about ability to receive its 107.1 WTLZ in the Flint area? Undoubtedly, this relatively new translator interferes with WTLZ's signal, which historically, has been very receivable on a car radio in the region.

The hinderance to reception of WTLZ, of course, benefits Cumulus-owned Z92.7.

Alpha and its predecessor company were flat-footed in resolving interference to 94.5 The Moose in the areas just north of Lansing, and it is unclear if pressure from Alpha even prompted the AM 870 WKAR translator to relocate from 94.5 FM to 105.1 FM.

It'll be interesting to see if they do anything here.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by CK-722 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:42 am

This is happening to HUNDREDS of Class As ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. You'd think that CUMULUS would have objected to the supercharged translators on 92.7 and 105.5 on TV Transmitting Towers near Detroit. Those do interfere with their signals in areas where they were clear and listenable. And this is just a FIRST ADJACENT on 107.3 vs. 107.1, not a COCHANNEL, like those translators on 92.7 and 105.5 are, and the one you mention for WJMK 1250 MeTV in Bridgeport/Saginaw which already moved from 98.5 to 99.3.

I'm assuming that they are moving or combining the Talk programming with the Sports on WTRX, since Sports Talk and PBP has really fallen due to the crisis. Maybe the OP could help fix their facility.

And I don't know why they didn't put the translator on the WTRX North Tower where the WFBE TL is . That might have given them more options and less restrictions, plus a better signal in Grand Blanc and Fenton areas, which are at least holding their own, at least before the crisis and chaos of COVID.

I have a plan, and a set of rules, to accommodate 1000+ translators to a new 2 MHz band with 1 kW/100 meters, but of course, that has a bunch of hurdles I'm sure you'll soon point out.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:41 am

Z92.7 doesn't earn a penny of ad revenue from central Oakland County and has never had more than minuscule listening from there. Objecting to the Faith Talk 1500 translator would've been a poor use of resources. Urban AC fans listen to 105.9 and 92.3 in that neck of the woods, not a fuzzy station from Flint.

As for WTLZ, that station historically has garnered about 2% of listening in Genesee County. I recall one book where the station scored as high as a 3 share...an aberration perhaps. If ad sales are focused on Saginaw and Bay City only, Alpha might not care.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by CK-722 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:36 am

But WTLZ is on a FIRST ADJACENT CHANNEL.

Many people DRIVE from Genesee County to JOBS in Oakland County (US Census says around 25,000), and why shouldn't they be able to listen to their LOCAL stations on the way to work? They can't even listen peacefully to WCRZ with that blasted (and at the very least) overmodulated translator for WDTW 1310 within WCRZ's protected 54 dBu contour.

I don't know why some "cows" are sacred and some aren't. Apparently, for some of you, WIOT, WUPS, and WTLZ are sacred. However, the FCC does not recognize "sacred" cows.

Keep in mind that WWCK-FM and WIOT were (originally) modeled after each other under the tutelage of Peter C. Cavanaugh.

Anyway, it all takes us back to the argument of relocating translators to a new band of frequencies.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:33 pm

Many people DRIVE from Genesee County to JOBS in Oakland County (US Census says around 25,000), and why shouldn't they be able to listen to their LOCAL stations on the way to work? They can't even listen peacefully to WCRZ with that blasted (and at the very least) overmodulated translator for WDTW 1310 within WCRZ's protected 54 dBu contour.
I've never heard bothersome interference from the WDTW translator within predicted WCRZ's 54 dBu contour.

107.9's signal has underperformed relative to FCC predicted contours in most of Oakland County for years, long before the WDTW translator came along. I live near Birmingham, and WCRZ's signal was already completely unlistenable here before the 1310 translator signed on, even in the car.

In recent years, my experience has been one needs to be near Lake Orion, Waterford Twp, Rochester, or Milford to get a decent signal in the car from WCRZ. The 1310 translator favors Macomb County much more than Oakland County and produces minimal if any interference in the communities I just listed.

Not all translator interference is created equal. The Smooth Jazz 104.7 translator caused widespread destructive interference to WIOT in highly populated areas where WIOT had previously enjoyed reliable reception *and* where WIOT actually had significant listeners. There's not a chance in hell the Smooth Jazz 104.7 translator's directional antenna pattern performed anywhere near in accordance with the specs the FCC approved. Way more power was being sent southbound and southwestward than what was authorized.

The original site used by the WRDT translator (WMUZ-FM tower on far NW side of Detroit) is another great example; that one caused destructive interference to WQKL near and along the I-275 corridor - a place where WQKL clearly had listeners, and from what I was told at the time, at least 1 or 2 advertisers. Thankfully, that situation was resolved quite promptly.

If the AM 1500 translator causes destructive interference to WDZZ in areas where WDZZ previously enjoyed meaningful listenership, I agree that it's a shame the FCC allows to occur. However, the only interference I've personally observed is on the fringe of WDZZ's listening area - where predicted contour strength is on the order of 45 dBu. It's doubtful WDZZ enjoyed material listenership from those areas.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by Realist » Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:33 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:10 am
Seems like a decent programming move to me.

However, ditching country from 95.1 in favor of classic hits might've been an even better move.
What would you expect from the corporation that has done continuous bone headed moves in the Tri City and Flint cluster?

- They dropped the classic hits format from blowtorch WHNN, which has a Class A signal into Flint, for a blah AC format? Result - overall ratings are HALF of what they were before the format change.
- They keep a redundant format (CHR) on in Flint at CK105, only to essentially compete against themselves as WIOG’S signal is also Class A into Flint.
- They drop the Tigers from their Sports talk station in Flint, which was one of the biggest reasons to actually listen.
- They rely on voice tracking for most of their shifts on all their Tri City stations, as they’ve fired a lot of on air staff.

I still think the best thing that could happen is the Cumulus file for bankruptcy and sell off these stations to a smaller operator


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:25 pm

Cumulus must figure Great Lakes Bay region advertisers won't pay extra to reach Genesee County listeners and vice versa.

That's the only theory that would explain the flip at 96.1 and the reason 102.5 & 105.5 continue to co-exist as CHR stations.

I was a very infrequent listener of the old 96 WHNN. Did that station attract a significant cohort of Genesee County advertisers?

To this day, I wonder if Cumulus signed a no-compete with the current owner of 103.9 The Fox (who purchased the station from Cumulus). Such language might even be contained in the purchase & sale agreement available for download from the FCC's online files, but I'm too lazy to check.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by Realist » Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:35 pm

IIRC, WHNN got between a 4-5 share overall in Genesee County as classic hits...

It’s bad logic, if you ask me, as we share the same TV market. I see ads for Flint businesses that I wouldn’t patronize and I’m sure it’s Vice versa for Genesee County residents for Saginaw and Bay City businesses


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by CK-722 » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:12 pm

For many years, WNEM-FM/WGER had very good numbers in Flint with Beautiful Music, and rivaled WGMZ. A very common misconception is that WIOG and WHNN put City Grade 70 dBu signals over Flint. But it's 60 dBu at best over the central part of the county. WIOG just misses the Northwestern High School annexation, so 0% of the City proper. WHNN is even less. And consider though that only a small fraction of the County population is within Flint. And the Southern Townships and Cities add up to a larger and increasing portion of the market and County. They also receive less than 60 dBu from WIOG and WHNN. The reason those signals have done well is not that they are overwhelmingly strong, but serve format niches that can't be covered by local signals. This is what WWCK and W297CG are doing in a small way. But they would probably do it better from the WTRX tower, and this would produce less interference to a signal from WTLZ, even though it demographically has always tried to serve the Northern parts of Genesee County, and has since it was WWWS, W3 Soul, in the late 1960s.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by Realist » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:20 pm

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/2036 ... -in-flint/

They even mentioned Cumulus flipping WHNN. Can’t believe it’s been 5 years


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:52 am

For many years, WNEM-FM/WGER had very good numbers in Flint with Beautiful Music, and rivaled WGMZ. A very common misconception is that WIOG and WHNN put City Grade 70 dBu signals over Flint. But it's 60 dBu at best over the central part of the county. WIOG just misses the Northwestern High School annexation, so 0% of the City proper. WHNN is even less. And consider though that only a small fraction of the County population is within Flint. And the Southern Townships and Cities add up to a larger and increasing portion of the market and County. They also receive less than 60 dBu from WIOG and WHNN.
You basing those readings on Longley-Rice or FCC predicted contours?

I bet Longley-Rice outperforms the FCC predicted contours, especially for WIOG. I've never heard even the tiniest hint of fuzz while listening to WIOG in that region in the car - granted, I haven't driven through downtown Flint in at least 15 years. Compare that to WSNX in the Grand Rapids area, which has all sorts of weak reception areas, yet has been a top performing station in that market for 25 years continuously.

If CK105 were to head in a different direction and Cumulus were to consolidate CHR listenership onto 102.5, it's not as if another signal would flip to CHR/Pop with a stronger signal in southern half of Genesee County. Club 93.7 has a weaker signal than WIOG there, Banana 101.5 is probably on par with or slightly weaker than WIOG there, and there's not a chance in hell Townsquare would ever program anything other than AC or Hot AC on 107.9.

Too bad 98KCQ no longer buys the Genesee County book; I bet their numbers are very close to those of the much stronger signaled Gnash FM.

Two formats that would be good backfill formats for 105.5 would be Classic Rock and Classic Hits. The fact 105.5 remains CHR/Pop to this day suggests to me Cumulus is restricted from hoisting a format that would compete directly with 103.9 WRSR on a full power signal.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:25 am

The station appears to be using Westwood One's classic hits format. The playlist is reasonably well structured, and station ID drops between songs are smooth.

Compared to the other recent low budget classic hits launch (92.9 in Lansing - which leans strongly classic rock), this one is more likable to my ears.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by audiophile » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:07 am

I thought it was Westwood also.


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Re: The New K107.3 Flint's Classic Hits

Post by CK-722 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:23 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:52 am
For many years, WNEM-FM/WGER had very good numbers in Flint with Beautiful Music, and rivaled WGMZ. A very common misconception is that WIOG and WHNN put City Grade 70 dBu signals over Flint. But it's 60 dBu at best over the central part of the county. WIOG just misses the Northwestern High School annexation, so 0% of the City proper. WHNN is even less. And consider though that only a small fraction of the County population is within Flint. And the Southern Townships and Cities add up to a larger and increasing portion of the market and County. They also receive less than 60 dBu from WIOG and WHNN.
You basing those readings on Longley-Rice or FCC predicted contours?

I bet Longley-Rice outperforms the FCC predicted contours, especially for WIOG. I've never heard even the tiniest hint of fuzz while listening to WIOG in that region in the car - granted, I haven't driven through downtown Flint in at least 15 years. Compare that to WSNX in the Grand Rapids area, which has all sorts of weak reception areas, yet has been a top performing station in that market for 25 years continuously.

If CK105 were to head in a different direction and Cumulus were to consolidate CHR listenership onto 102.5, it's not as if another signal would flip to CHR/Pop with a stronger signal in southern half of Genesee County. Club 93.7 has a weaker signal than WIOG there, Banana 101.5 is probably on par with or slightly weaker than WIOG there, and there's not a chance in hell Townsquare would ever program anything other than AC or Hot AC on 107.9.

Too bad 98KCQ no longer buys the Genesee County book; I bet their numbers are very close to those of the much stronger signaled Gnash FM.

Two formats that would be good backfill formats for 105.5 would be Classic Rock and Classic Hits. The fact 105.5 remains CHR/Pop to this day suggests to me Cumulus is restricted from hoisting a format that would compete directly with 103.9 WRSR on a full power signal.
Longley Rice does predictions at each point/location. Very few people, except maybe 10 percent of listeners, have/had antennas at 30 feet AGL, which is what the FCC uses for signal prediction to this day. Most people are at near zero to perhaps a 20 feet AGL maximum in an apartment building. Central Genesee County is 30-40 miles away from WNEM-FM/WGER/WIOG. WHNN is further still. Despite the idea that the terrain is flat, there are areas in between where the elevation is more than 200 feet higher than the approximately 587 feet AMSL site that the WIOG transmitter in on. Let me get an FMFool Study at my former RL near Hemphill and VanSlyke to demonstrate this location which is not unique in it's elevation, 761 feet.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

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