Flint water crisis on 60 Minutes

[sinklair]

A great update on tonight’s 60 Minutes on the Flint water crisis’ ongoing impacts on children in the city.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flint-wate ... 020-07-05/

Why is it that national networks are doing this type of journalism, while our local stations are no longer pushing for answers from our elected officials? Why hasn’t former guv Snyder and his whole team been charged/recharged for their roles in the crisis? Why hasn’t new Governor Whitmer and new Mayor Neeley lived up to their campaign promises?

When this all started, the market had 3 veteran news directors... who since were either pushed out or left... only to be replaced by newbies who either don’t know/understand the market or are too in over their heads to know the difference. 5, 12, and 25-66 have done specials, town halls, investigative reports... but virtually nothing in the past year.

It’s embarrassing that we’re getting beat by out of market competitors...

[sinklair]

You’re friends with Terry, why don’t you ask him yourself?

[sinklair]

Instead of doing local stories, I guess we’re now getting local reaction to Kanye West’s “announcement” that he’s running for President. He’s not even on a single ballot and we’re wasting time with this? Why?

[TC Shuts Up]

While it is never good to drink water with Lead in it, the City of Flint used water from the Flint River, which doesn't have any more lead in it than any other water source. The Lead came from ancient water mains and pipes with Lead in them, like many other cities have or did have. People in Flint drank the water from the Flint River for decades. Hundreds became MDs, PhDs, DDSs, Engineers of every type, and JDs (though those might have some damage, the jury is still out). Hundreds of others are equally or more successful. The water is back to normal Lead levels or even below, due to brand spanking new water mains and pipes. The people got free bottled water for years. MOVE ON! YOU ARE HURTING THE COMMUNITY BY KEEPING THIS IN THE NEWS.

Other cities have Public Relations Departments who would try to move on, or would have spun it more fairly in the first place. NOBODY PUT LEAD IN THE WATER TO POISON ANYONE. AT WORST IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. MOVE ON!

[MasterB]

I think that if Rick Synder was charged it would've happened already and I believe that former AG Bill would've charged Synder if there was a smoking gun. Dana shouldn't have dropped the charges on those that were already charged by the former AG and there isn't going to be any justice for Flint as Dana hasn't done anything for Flint and the water crisis either other than dropping the charges for her pals.

[MWmetalhead]

NOBODY PUT LEAD IN THE WATER TO POISON ANYONE. AT WORST IT WAS AN ACCIDENT. MOVE ON!

If you think the actions by DEQ to distort the testing data "were an accident at worst," you are delusional.

True, the leeching of lead into the water and improper treatment of the water source was due to incompetence, not malicious intent, but once the damage became apparent, numerous government officials absolutely tried covering up their own ineptitude, sacrificing the health and welfare of Flint residents in the process.

The fact Nessel let the bad actors completely off the hook sickens me. I 100% agree with MasterB on that point.

Where I will agree with you, TC Shuts Up, is the city probably does need to do a better job of publicly touting the improvements to the water system that have occurred over the past 24 months.

Darnell Earley is a lying sack of shit who wrote an op-ed in the Detroit News touting his innocence and touting a complete lack of involvement in decision making regarding the water source. It wasn't until he appeared before Congress and got grilled that he finally told the truth regarding his decision making authority and involvement.

By the way, the issue wasn't limited to lead contamination. For a while, the "treated" water was causing metal auto parts to corrode almost instantly, all the while Flint's dopey former mayor and DEQ were touting the water as perfectly safe to drink, use for bathing, etc.

[audiophile]

The Flint River water was corroding parts in the 1950's - why do you think they switched to Detroit Water to begin with?

[Ben Zonia]

By the way, the issue wasn't limited to lead contamination. For a while, the "treated" water was causing metal auto parts to corrode almost instantly, all the while Flint's dopey former mayor and DEQ were touting the water as perfectly safe to drink, use for bathing, etc.

I worked of a while as a Chemist in a Metallurgical Laboratory in a General Motors Plant, and I have an undergraduate degree in Chemistry, and I can tell you that that story is not possible. You would have to have a pH of less than 1 to do that. That's like diluted Hydrochloric Acid. There's no way that could happen without sabotage or fakery. I worked testing the water in parts washers, to determine how much alkaline detergent needed to be added so that the parts didn't rust. Parts washers act like a toilet tank, and if there is leak, alkaline detergent has to be added more frequently. Manufacturers everywhere use parts washers for products made of steel, and that is not the least bit unusual.Near neutral pHs will rust the metal after awhile, but not immediately or almost immediately. If the washers leak, the parts do rust/corrode, but not almost immediately. Would have to have proof in the form of videos and videos of testing to believe that story. Once I discovered that expert witnesses deliberately faked damage in a case I was involved with, I was always skeptical, and it seems preposterous to me. It sounds like the rumor that Coca Cola was so acidic it would eat though a nail. Coke is acidic, but it would take days or weeks to badly corrode a nail. Someone in an Elementary Science Fair did this as an experiment, and as snopes would say, "FALSE".

[MWmetalhead]

The lead got into people's taps due to improper treatment of the water supply. Lead pipes are a hazard for sure, but they became an exponentially larger hazard when the Flint Water Plant failed to properly treat the water supply. They consulted the MDEQ for guidance, who supplied misinformation. When the parties involved knew they fucked up, they undertook a campaign to cover their tracks and deceive the public.

[Ben Zonia]

If all water systems with old Lead mains and pipes were tested, you would find that a lot of them had excess Lead in the water. Cities with old mains are just whistling past the cemetery if they believe there isn't. If you don't test for it, you won't find it, just like COVID-19.

Frankly, I no longer trust any expert witnesses. A lot of this was done for political purposes and federal money. Some sabotage and fakery was exposed, but the "whistleblower" was shouted down. If you believe whistleblowers, then you have to believe all of them, not just the ones whose results fit your bias. If you fake data or sabotage results, you can never be trusted again.

[MWmetalhead]

"Almost instantly" was a poor choice of words on my part, Ben.

Usually, one when thinks of the process of rust formation, it occurs after many months or years of exposure. That was the context I had in mind when I said "almost instantly."

By almost instantly - the time frame I had in mind was five days or less.

Here is an article from the Automotive News on this very matter:
https://www.autonews.com/article/201601 ... ter-crisis

The folks at the plant were blaming the rust on extremely high chloride levels. Basically, diluted hydrochloric acid was coming out of the pipes!

[Ben Zonia]

Doctors used to spray people's sore throats with merthiolate/mercurichrome, a Mercury compound, before the dangers of Mercury were known. They probably should have known.

Shoe stores used to use Fluoroscopes to show how your feet fit into different sizes of shoes, exposing them to the equivalent of hundreds of X Rays, before the dangers of Radiation were known. It seems like Madame Curie even died as an indirect result of her experiments with "therapeutic" Radium, for which she won a Nobel Prize as I recall.

I guess everyone should know better. Don't smoke. Only drink alcohol except in extreme moderation. Don't take drugs, legal or illegal, unnecessarily. Don't have sexual relations with people you don't know to be disease free, if you don't follow religious teachings. Eat in moderation and watch what you do eat. Don't pick up hitchhikers. If she's good looking, there's probably some ugly guy lurking nearby who will rob you and beat you up or even kill you.

Words to live by. Life is full of dangers. Hindsight is often better than foresight. Know what I'm sayin'?

[MWmetalhead]

So, the bad actors should be let completely off the hook?

Having useless water that cannot be used for drinking, cooking, and especially bathing for many, many months is an extreme inconvenience.

The folks who distorted the testing data on purpose and who engaged in a public misinformation campaign deserve to prosecuted and sued.

I know national left-wing pundits and Hollywood like to blame Republicans exclusively for the fiasco, but a lot of Democrats and unionized "civil servants" have their fingerprints all over what went down in Flint, too.

[km1125]

If all water systems with old Lead mains and pipes were tested, you would find that a lot of them had excess Lead in the water. Cities with old mains are just whistling past the cemetery if they believe there isn't. If you don't test for it, you won't find it, just like COVID-19.

Frankly, I no longer trust any expert witnesses. A lot of this was done for political purposes and federal money. Some sabotage and fakery was exposed, but the "whistleblower" was shouted down. If you believe whistleblowers, then you have to believe all of them, not just the ones whose results fit your bias. If you fake data or sabotage results, you can never be trusted again.

IIRC, shortly after the Flint news started dying down, they tested for lead in many more communities around the state and found several (19?) exceeded the problems that Flint had. No uproar on that??

ALSO, while there might have been missteps in how the state handled the issue, the "leadership" in FLINT is the reason the state even had to intervene. The City was not paying it's bills and could not come up with a solution with Detroit Water to continue to be served by them. It was at least 10 years of gross mismanagement by the CITY OF FLINT that got them into this situation in the first place. Instead of the state coming in and trying to fix it, they should have just disbanded it.

[MWmetalhead]

Disband what? The incorporation of the city?

I would have no issue with that, but Genesee County might not be so fond of that idea.