One Year Since Real Oldies Went Dark

[Greg Buben]

It's been a year now since WGVU-AM 1480 in Grand Rapids and WGVS-AM 850 went dark. The Oldies offered on the
non commercial AM stations was so much broader than commercial stations that previously played oldies. I realize that
the commercial broadcasters of today don't want to offer oldies stations unless it's just the 60's and 70's without oldies
from the 50's and the early 60's before The Beatles. I do think that oldies including pre Beatle music can be blended in
an oldies format like it was with the "Real Oldies" format on a commercial station although the people old enough to
remember such hits as currents are now in their upper 70's and 80's. If I were to program a traditional oldies station on
a commercial FM station I wouldn't overdue the pre Beatle oldies but I'd atleast throw in a few per hour and probably
would do weekend specialty shows with music that pre dates the Beatles.
I still say that Oldies could be a viable format for Cumulus to consider instead of that awful "Thunder Country" and
I'll state what would support the return of WODJ oldies on 107.3 FM . The main reason is because in the ratings "Real
Oldies" as a non commercial AM oldies station always beat out "Thunder Country" a 50,000 watt station that just plays
the same major label modern country hits that you can find on the worlds strongest FM station B-93. Also with oldies
what you can do is gradually replace the 50's and pre Beatle 60's with more 60's and 70's as time moves along.but keep the most popular oldies on the playlist. Another thing it could do is take some listeners away from 101.3 FM with wider variety
of oldies from the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I know the best scenario for a "traditional" oldies station that includes music before
the Beatles would be to have it on a non commercial FM but I do think Oldies including music before The Beatles with
the 60's and 70's would be something that should be considered by Cumulus for 107.3 FM. The return of WODJ. I do
think they should have done this last year after "Real Oldies" went dark but there still is time to have Cumulus redeem
themselves after they yanked WODJ off the air like they did several years ago.

[Barry Sanders]

”Thunder Country" a 50,000 watt station that just plays
the same major label modern country hits that you can find on the worlds strongest FM station B-93."

Thank you for finally bringing this to our attention.

[Graham Wellington]

Do you really think a company run as retarded as Cumulus is really going to be able to create a kick ass oldies station? It would, at best, be a 101.3 clone. Same standard songs trending 70s-80s. Same 12 minute commercial breaks. Same out of place voicetracked jocks who know nothing about the music so they just ramble on about mindless Facebook shit. WODJ has been dead for years and most have probably forgotten about it.

Commercial radio is dead. As someone who has a similar fondness for oldies, I've moved on to SiriusXM and music streaming apps. I've discovered way more "forgotten" music that way than commercial radio will ever be able to do.

[TC Talks]

If it was economically viable, WGVU would still be running it. This is based on my experience with that organization.

[oldnewsguy]

You can get "Real Oldies" by streaming . . . .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/realoldiesmusicradio

Check it out!

[cckadlec]

The main reason is because in the ratings "Real Oldies" as a non commercial AM oldies station always beat out "Thunder Country" a 50,000 watt station that just plays the same major label modern country hits that you can find on the worlds strongest FM station B-93.

Unless your world only consists of the United States, I would be cautious in claiming B93 is the strongest FM station in the world. That, my friend, is quite a stretch, despite its great power. Of course, it's difficult to compare some as a lot of the world uses output as listed power as opposed to ERP like the US does. In Asia, a lot of the big stations are 10kw output, but their ERP is significant... but unlisted as it isn't measured how we do here.

[MWmetalhead]

Many stations out west have greater areal coverage than B93. There are some class C and superpowered class B stations that transmit from 3000 feet height above average terrain.

KLOS, for example, has a massive signal.

The WWMT / WBCT tower is in a somewhat stupid location, frankly. It sits at the bottom (not top) of a big hill. HAGL is actually higher than HAAT because of this.

[Ben Zonia]

Many stations out west have greater areal coverage than B93. There are some class C and superpowered class B stations that transmit from 3000 feet height above average terrain.

KLOS, for example, has a massive signal.

The WWMT / WBCT tower is in a somewhat stupid location, frankly. It sits at the bottom (not top) of a big hill. HAGL is actually higher than HAAT because of this.

That's not at all unusual. You use tower height to make up for it. It's only about a 40 foot hole. It may have been a matter of what land was available. It also may have been chosen because it put a City Grade Signal over both Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo for both WKZO-TV and WJFM. The F(50,50) contours were a little different circa 1960, they predicted a slightly larger distance. But WJFM was 500000 watts also. I think the 1 mV/m covered Lansing then also. Usually, it was based on 8 hand drawn radials on USGS Topographical Maps. Longley Rice was tedious at best, you might do it on just a few radials, and was time consuming and expensive before widely available computers. Remember that Grand Rapids and Battle Creek have annexed considerable territory since then, they are the greatest areas than every other city in Michigan besides Detroit, and Portage was just a Township then.

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&facid= ... 3ebeb7&i=2

Select BL-2070 on this link for the City Grade, Grade A, and Grade B analog TV contours.

https://www.fccdata.org/?lang=en&appid= ... acid=74195

Select Open Street Map and Zoom In for City Limit detail.

[MWmetalhead]

When 105.7 was still using WOOD-TV's tower, they delivered a better signal to the Lansing area than B93. In Muskegon, Kalamazoo and St. Joseph, I'd call it a draw. In Battle Creek, 105.7 was the stronger of the two.

The WWMT site gives OTA television viewers in the GR area fits these days. Finally top mounting the WWMT transmitting antenna helped alleviate some of the difficulty, but reception is still less reliable than WOOD -TV.

The hill on M-179 less than a mile west of the site is much more than 40 feet higher. It's probably a couple hundred feet higher.

[Ben Zonia]

There were always shadows near the Grand River, noticeable on WJFM driving around, especially if you had a portable radio with a signal strength meter in the car. Usually, TV receivers are in a fixed location. At Physical Channel 3, 60-66 MHz, there is a lot of diffraction into shadows. At Physical Channel 8, 180-186 MHz, three times the frequency, one third the wavelength, there is less diffractive filling of the shadow areas. It would be a lot worse if it was UHF. With UHF, unless the terrain is perfectly flat, 25-30 miles is otherwise too far for reliable UHF reception. The current High VHF ATSC 1.0 is much more fragile than Low VHF NTSC analog. Note that the Class A FMs in Grand Rapids have good signals considering their power vs. the grandfathered superpower Class B FM stations from far away.

[Ben Zonia]

I just put the location of WTKG 1230 into FM Fool, 280 Ann St. NW, next to the Grand River. At 6 feet AGL, WBCT is 2 Edge, with 108 feet AGL necessary for LOS. WSRW is 2Edge, with 116 feet necessary for LOS. WVGR is 2Edge, with 107 feet necessary for LOS. WLHT, WYHA, WFGR, WTRV, WCSG, and WGRD, among other translators and LPFMs, are all LOS. WGRD at 13 kW, is only 0.7 dB below WSRW, with 265 kW. Note that the WJFM/WBCT STL used to be on the WTKG 1230 tower. So the STL would have to be significantly higher than 108 feet to clear the Fresnel Zone. That tower is 400 feet tall.

And because the FM band is now all jammed up, the superpower stations cannot move significantly closer to Grand Rapids. So I guess they have to be satisfied also serving Kalamazoo and Battle Creek.

[originalzzmfmjock]

Back to 1480 for a bit. I see on Radio Locator that the call letters are now listed as WSLI with a Christian Contemporary format, and owned by Smile FM. I also see where the 95.3 translator that Grand Valley owned also shows now being owned by Smile FM with the calls of WSLI. I have no idea where they are going to locate the AM signal, but it looks like eventually Smile FM will be teaming up 1480 with the 95.3 translator. As of right now 1480 is still silent and 95.3 is being used as a translator for WGVU-FM 88.5

[Scratchy45LP]

"Real Oldles Music Radio" is shining brighter. It's great hearing minimal repeats. With over 10,000 songs in their library! I love the "Bob Mason Countdown Show" on Sunday afternoons. Anybody here collect music surveys? My minimal collection goes back only to 1965.

[radionut]

[quote=originalzzmfmjock post_id=725376 time=1673555093 user_id=2796]
Back to 1480 for a bit. I see on Radio Locator that the call letters are now listed as WSLI with a Christian Contemporary format, and owned by Smile FM. I also see where the 95.3 translator that Grand Valley owned also shows now being owned by Smile FM with the calls of WSLI. I have no idea where they are going to locate the AM signal, but it looks like eventually Smile FM will be teaming up 1480 with the 95.3 translator. As of right now 1480 is still silent and 95.3 is being used as a translator for WGVU-FM 88.5
[/quote]

The translator was not part of the sale. If look the translator shows also associated with WGVU FM.

Smile FM on 1480 was on the Air Jan 7th. STA for 100W