Lawmakers eye Michigan gun reforms

[TC Talks]

Just a wonderful benefit of democrats in charge; sensible gun control.

Lawmakers eye Michigan gun reforms

It seems like a simple question: How old do you have to be to own a gun in Michigan?

In most cases, if you’re 18, you can buy a rifle or shotgun. If you’re 21, you can buy a handgun. But you can buy a handgun at 18 if you purchase it from a private seller rather than a federally licensed gun shop.

And even if you can’t purchase it, you can carry a weapon when you’re younger than 18 if, for example, you’re accompanied by someone over 18 and going hunting. But if you’re stopping at a diner for breakfast before the hunt, you may not be able to carry the weapon inside — that’s up to the owners.

Unless you have a concealed carry permit, which allows you to carry weapons in more places.

But you can’t get that until you’re 21. As Michigan reels from its second school mass shooting in 15 months, state lawmakers are considering a host of gun laws that would alter a hodgepodge of laws that now govern ownership and the carrying of weapons.

The proposals would, if passed by the Legislature and signed by Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, tighten current gun regulations with laws that range from universal background checks for gun purchases, safe storage requirements for gun owners and so-called red flag laws allowing judges to temporarily confiscate a gun from someone deemed to pose a risk to others or themselves.

Those changes could matter a lot to Michigan residents: those pushing for stricter gun safety measures and those who have stocked up on weapons and concealed carry permits in the past decade.

No one knows how many guns are in the state, but we do know that there have been more than 14 million background checks for new purchases of weapons since 2000 — in a state with 10 million residents. More than one in 10 adults has a permit to carry a concealed handgun.

What are Michigan’s current gun laws? Here are the highlights.

WHO CAN OWN A GUN?

In Michigan, gun purchasers must be 18 years old to buy a weapon more than 26 inches long (such as rifles and shotguns), and 21 to purchase a handgun from a federally licensed dealer.

But an 18-year-old can purchase a handgun from a private seller, with a handgun purchase license.

Michigan residents have gone on a gun-buying frenzy in recent years, according to the limited data authorities have on gun purchases and ownership.

Those laws don’t restrict those younger than 18 from possessing weapons if they’re using them to hunt, target practice or skeet shoot.

WHAT ABOUT ASSAULT RIFLES ?

Semi-automatic rifles, sometimes known as assault rifles, can be purchased in Michigan, and follow the same rules for purchase as other rifles.

ARE THERE ADULTS WHO CAN’T BUY OR OWN A GUN?

Michigan is one of 36 states with laws to restrict felons from legally possessing firearms and one of 31 states to do this indefinitely, according to gun research group Everytown Research and Policy.

OTHER RESTRICTIONS:

People with a personal protective order filed against them, or who are charged with domestic violence, can’t buy or possess a firearm.

Nor can people under an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness, or who have been found to be unable to manage one’s affairs because of a mental condition determined in a court proceeding.

WHERE CAN I CARRY A GUN?

Michigan is an “open carry” state, meaning gun owners are generally allowed to walk around with weapons if the weapons are not concealed.

That’s not because of a specific law, but because there is no law that has been passed to prohibit it.

Gun owners can carry long guns in their vehicles, though a concealed carry permit is generally required to transport a handgun in a vehicle anyplace other than to a shooting range. Both long guns and handguns must be unloaded while in a vehicle, and carried someplace that is not readily accessible to passengers, such as a trunk.

Michigan law puts some limits on open carry, including prohibitions on carrying guns into:

• Banks and credit unions

• Churches or other places of worship

• Courts

• Theaters

• Sports arenas

• Daycare centers and schools

• Hospitals

• Bars

• Private businesses also can set their own policies on weapons in their establishments.

WHAT IF I HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT?

Many of those limitations go out the window for those with a concealed carry permit, as long as the handgun is concealed. Concealed carry permits only apply to handguns, not long guns such as rifles and shotguns.

One twist: In Michigan schools, people with a concealed carry permit can carry a handgun into Michigan schools, but only if the weapon is not concealed.

WHO CAN GET A PERMIT?

You have to be 21 or older to apply for a concealed carry permit, and meet the following requirements:

• A citizen of the United States or an alien lawfully admitted into the U.S.

• A resident of Michigan for at least six months

• Completed an eight-hour minimum handgun safety training course certified by the state, or by a national or state firearms training organization.

• Not the subject of specified court orders, such as a personal protective order or a charge of domestic abuse

• Never been convicted of a felony, and no felony charge pending

• Not been dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces

• Not been convicted of a misdemeanor violation in the last eight years relating to specified crimes, including: serious vehicle offenses; displaying sexually explicit materials to minors; assault or domestic assault; certain weapons crimes; or stalking

• Not been found “guilty but mentally ill” of any crime and has not offered a plea of not guilty or acquitted of any crime by reason of insanity

• Never been subject to an order of involuntary commitment in an inpatient or outpatient setting due to mental illness

• Not have a diagnosed mental illness that includes an assessment that the individual presents a danger to themselves or others

• Not under a court order of legal incapacity

• A valid state-issued driver license or personal identification card

HOW MANY CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS ARE THERE?

As of Feb. 1 in Michigan, there were 797,000 approved Concealed Pistol Licenses (CPLs), also known as concealed carry permits, a number that represents more than one in 10 Michigan adults. That number applies to the number of people holding a permit, not the number of individual guns owned by a permit-holder.

There is a $115 licensing and fingerprinting fee, paid at application, and a $115 fee for renewal every five years.

The number of concealed carry permits has increased dramatically in the past decade, from 453,950 in 2014 to 797,000 through January, a 75 percent increase in a state where the population has stayed roughly the same.

Most people who apply for a concealed carry permit get it. In the year from October 2021 to September 2022, there were about 160,000 applications for concealed carry permits, with 3,100 rejected (just under 2 percent).

Among those who had their applications rejected, about half were turned down for having a misdemeanor conviction for a crime that bans CPL’s, such as assault, domestic assault, or stalking. Other reasons for CPL rejection included pending felony (218) or misdemeanor (469) charges.

[Bryce]

As opposed to the Democrats in charge that refuse to enforce the existing gun laws on the books? The MSU shooter is an example.

[km1125]

Lets see... we don't believe that 18 year old people are smart enough or developed enough to buy handguns, buy or use cigarettes, any tobacco, or vaping products, or grow pot, or own or carry a taser, or drive across state lines as a commercial driver....






.... but somehow we still let them vote.

SMDH.

[TC Talks]

Lets see... we don't believe that 18 year old people are smart enough or developed enough to buy handguns, buy or use cigarettes, any tobacco, or vaping products, or grow pot, or own or carry a taser, or drive across state lines as a commercial driver....






.... but somehow we still let them vote.

SMDH.

You don't do outrage nearly as well as some of the other obtuse fools who think more guns equals less deaths.

[Bryce]

But you see I don't feel that way at all. I feel that fewer ILLEGAL guns will mean many less gun deaths but no one seems to want to attack that problem.

[TC Talks]

But you see I don't feel that way at all. I feel that less ILLEGAL guns will mean many fewer deaths but no one seems to want to attack that problem.

That's part of the argument I agree would help. So would improved mental health checks, and a better red flag system.

Didn't a Republican want to eliminate red flags this week?

[Round Six]

Like Bryce is saying time and time again, enforce the existing laws. Mandatory prison for anyone caught with a weapon illegally.

Quit talking about addressing mental health issues as an effective deterrent. I'm not saying it's not a factor. But have we not seen time after time that tragedy may of been averted if the signs hadn't been ignored. That's not going to change no matter how many "programs" you spend taxpayer money on.

Like I said in the first paragraph, Step One is to get rigid about enforcing existing laws. Nobody has a problem with that.

And I fully expect so called red flags to be misused.
Some kid don't get to go somewhere.
A nasty divorce.
A neighborhood beef.
And some responsibe hunter loses their guns for who knows how long over nothing more than revenge and spite. You watch how many times this sort of thing happens.

[TC Talks]

Like Bryce is saying time and time again, enforce the existing laws. Mandatory prison for anyone caught with a weapon illegally.

Quit talking about addressing mental health issues as an effective deterrent. I'm not saying it's not a factor. But have we not seen time after time that tragedy may of been averted if the signs hadn't been ignored. That's not going to change no matter how many "programs" you spend taxpayer money on.

Like I said in the first paragraph, Step One is to get rigid about enforcing existing laws. Nobody has a problem with that.

And I fully expect so called red flags to be misused.
Some kid don't get to go somewhere.
A nasty divorce.
A neighborhood beef.
And some responsibe hunter loses their guns for who knows how long over nothing more than revenge and spite. You watch how many times this sort of thing happens.

Thankfully you don't have a say in Lansing

[Rate This]

Like Bryce is saying time and time again, enforce the existing laws. Mandatory prison for anyone caught with a weapon illegally.

Quit talking about addressing mental health issues as an effective deterrent. I'm not saying it's not a factor. But have we not seen time after time that tragedy may of been averted if the signs hadn't been ignored. That's not going to change no matter how many "programs" you spend taxpayer money on.

Like I said in the first paragraph, Step One is to get rigid about enforcing existing laws. Nobody has a problem with that.

And I fully expect so called red flags to be misused.
Some kid don't get to go somewhere.
A nasty divorce.
A neighborhood beef.
And some responsibe hunter loses their guns for who knows how long over nothing more than revenge and spite. You watch how many times this sort of thing happens.

Have you been around a big city and seen all the crazies EVERYWHERE? Don't address mental health? They are coming out of the woodwork and wreaking havoc...

[MasterB]

I support red-flag laws and using the laws that are already in the books for the local DA has. Stop with the plea deals if the local DAs want to be serious about guns I just don't get why they make so many plea deals on gun violence? If I was a DA I'd be tough on crime and guns I'd make no plea deals for those that shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

[Round Six]

Have you been around a big city and seen all the crazies EVERYWHERE? Don't address mental health? They are coming out of the woodwork and wreaking havoc...

You're right. 100 percent right.

Would you agree or disagree that looking at the "headline" shootings lately, the majority of the time friends and family are saying in hindsight that the signs were there. How is pouring money into mental health problems going to prevent gun violence if people are unable or unwilling to recognize someone has an issue between their ears?

Something else that will be abused:

"Hey, Dad won't give me any money"
"I wanna a piece of Grandma's inheritance".

Just say they are mentally unstable even when it's not true.

You're higher than the cost of living if you think a mental health law intended for gun access won't start getting applied to situations like that?

And like the red flag laws, the Lugnuts in Lansing will pass the law as you're guilty until you prove your innocent.

[km1125]

Any type of "red flag" law needs to have H-U-G-E ramifications for misuse.

But more importantly, that penalty section needs to state CLEARLY that NO ONE is exempted... not the Governor, not any state congress'peoples', not LEO, not anyone. And the penalties need to be severe.

And who would object to that, other than someone who KNOWS that it'll be misused?

[Bryce]

The estimated number of firearm deaths, excluding suicides, in 2022 was 20,138. Estimated deaths caused by fentanyl overdoses in 2022 was around 80,000. Seems to me that we could save many more lives if we would seal off the southern border in which the vast majority of fentanyl comes into the country. Then, attack the illegal possession of firearms which make up the vast majority of gun related homicides.

[TC Talks]

The estimated number of firearm deaths, excluding suicides, in 2022 was 20,138. Estimated deaths caused by fentanyl overdoses in 2022 was around 80,000. Seems to me that we could save many more lives if we would seal off the southern border in which the vast majority of fentanyl comes into the country. Then, attack the illegal possession of firearms which make up the vast majority of gun related homicides.

Ah, let's stay focused on the gun deaths. Factor in the suicides and gun deaths remain #1.

[Bryce]

The estimated number of firearm deaths, excluding suicides, in 2022 was 20,138. Estimated deaths caused by fentanyl overdoses in 2022 was around 80,000. Seems to me that we could save many more lives if we would seal off the southern border in which the vast majority of fentanyl comes into the country. Then, attack the illegal possession of firearms which make up the vast majority of gun related homicides.

Ah, let's stay focused on the gun deaths. Factor in the suicides and gun deaths remain #1.

But, people driven to commit suicide are going to use other means to do so. Only a fraction of firearm suicides would be prevented.

If I remember correctly, you were in favor of assisted suicide being legal. Your concern rings hollow.