Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues in the State of Michigan. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
Circle Seven
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:53 am
Location: Fishing somewhere

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Circle Seven » Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:53 pm

Everyone here read it. Please find the full text, set aside 10 minutes and read the whole thing. Don't base what you see on TV or media websites.

Here is a link for what will go into the constitution. Not the summary that will be on the ballot:

https://www.dioceseoflansing.org/office ... proposal-3

Honestly.
From this post on, how about only people who have read the whole thing (not the Cliff Notes version you seen online or in a newspaper) continue to participate in the conversation?

There is fibbing and construing from both camps.
Even the TV ads against People 3 aren't showing the actual text.

You are all very passionate one way or the other. That's a good thing. Just make sure you know what you are talking about. Take the time to read it word for word.



User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Rate This » Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:08 pm

Circle Seven wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:53 pm
Everyone here read it. Please find the full text, set aside 10 minutes and read the whole thing. Don't base what you see on TV or media websites.

Here is a link for what will go into the constitution. Not the summary that will be on the ballot:

https://www.dioceseoflansing.org/office ... proposal-3

Honestly.
From this post on, how about only people who have read the whole thing (not the Cliff Notes version you seen online or in a newspaper) continue to participate in the conversation?

There is fibbing and construing from both camps.
Even the TV ads against People 3 aren't showing the actual text.

You are all very passionate one way or the other. That's a good thing. Just make sure you know what you are talking about. Take the time to read it word for word.
I took the time to read it. I don't see anything terribly wrong with it.



MotorCityRadioFreak
Posts: 6408
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
Location: Warren, MI

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:37 am

Circle Seven wrote:
Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:53 pm
Everyone here read it. Please find the full text, set aside 10 minutes and read the whole thing. Don't base what you see on TV or media websites.

Here is a link for what will go into the constitution. Not the summary that will be on the ballot:

https://www.dioceseoflansing.org/office ... proposal-3

Honestly.
From this post on, how about only people who have read the whole thing (not the Cliff Notes version you seen online or in a newspaper) continue to participate in the conversation?

There is fibbing and construing from both camps.
Even the TV ads against People 3 aren't showing the actual text.

You are all very passionate one way or the other. That's a good thing. Just make sure you know what you are talking about. Take the time to read it word for word.
I signed the petition and read it word for word then. I was in a quiet area where I had time.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

Taco
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:55 am

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Taco » Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:10 am

I am voting YES on all the proposals this year. I like the idea of 9 days of early voting and mandatory ballot drop boxes to vote absentee.


Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
For it is a human number
Its number is six hundred and sixty-six

Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:09 pm

Taco wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:10 am
I am voting YES on all the proposals this year. I like the idea of 9 days of early voting and mandatory ballot drop boxes to vote absentee.
Prop 1 seems to be just the right amount of time and I think more transparency about the people we are voting for is a good thing. I know there are fans of eliminating term limits for reasonable reasons, but it seems 10-15 years would be the right amount of time to allow a person to serve.

Prop 2 is something that I am on the fence about for one reason. I feel like the post-election audits are too constrained. Only allowing for what is essentially internal audits is ridiculous. Like, I don't want "AUDITDAFED6969" going in with his youtube channel or something like that and using their loose understanding of the law and harassing random bureaucrats doing their job, but I would like the opportunity for trusted external entities to conduct election audits. As a matter of fact, I think it would be a good thing if there were generally accepted principles that governments could use for external audits for voting.



A1B1C1D1
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:21 pm

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by A1B1C1D1 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:44 pm

I oppose Proposal 3, but then again as I am getting older part of my bias is against moving next to euthanasia (sorry, doctor assisted suicide) which the state rejected by 40 points in 1998. It may be on the ballot next, and if the legislature stays Republican they may also pass a proposal for capital punishment if it gets enough signatures and thwart the voters even seeing it.

No different than Kansas, millions are coming in from the coasts in support of Proposal 3. The same was true of that renewable energy proposal that passed. Europe is years ahead of Michigan in renewables and they can't kick their Russia energy addiction. If Germany can't make it work, can Michigan?

I oppose legal abortion, capital punishment and euthanasia. In a decades time all three will be legal in Michigan thanks to our proposal process. Proposal 3 goes even beyond legal abortion.

Missouri, Louisiana (Democrat governor no less) and Idaho all have the same law as Michigan but in full effect. It isn't a radical law, and with pill based abortion it really can only be enforced against surgical abortion anyways.



Circle Seven
Posts: 358
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:53 am
Location: Fishing somewhere

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Circle Seven » Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:26 am

A1B1C1D1 wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:44 pm
.... I oppose legal abortion, capital punishment and euthanasia. In a decades time all three will be legal in Michigan thanks to our proposal process. Proposal 3 goes even beyond legal abortion ...
I think we may have a difference of opinion on euthanasia. When I visit friends and loved ones in a nursing home that have no chance of ever getting out, I honestly say a prayer for the Lord to take me in my sleep at home. That's how I want to go. I want my partner to yell "You getting up?" Nope.
And my family knows this. I've said it many times.

If I knew my demise was inevitable, I would not want to lay in hospice slowly dying a prolonged death. I'm at peace with my God.
I wanna be able to say "Just pull the plug".

I recognize that euthanasia could become a slippery slope. The possibility of someone else with power of attorney making a decision that you don't want. Or the government and medical community deciding anyone over a certain age, when they get sick, that's it.



User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by audiophile » Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am

The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

km1125
Posts: 3570
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by km1125 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:33 pm

audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am
The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/
Nice of them to wait till 3 days before election day to do that investigation. What about all those early voters? Don't they deserve to be informed as well?



User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Rate This » Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:50 pm

km1125 wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:33 pm
audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am
The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/
Nice of them to wait till 3 days before election day to do that investigation. What about all those early voters? Don't they deserve to be informed as well?
Is Googling the text of it that damned hard? What is this? 1990?



MotorCityRadioFreak
Posts: 6408
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:26 am
Location: Warren, MI

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:35 pm

When I cast my ballot today at the clerk’s office, I reread it yet again. It clearly states that it would allow abortion up to the point of viability and not up to the point of delivery except to protect the mother.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:49 pm

km1125 wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:33 pm
audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am
The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/
Nice of them to wait till 3 days before election day to do that investigation. What about all those early voters? Don't they deserve to be informed as well?
Why am I not surprised conservative users don’t know the difference between opinion and investigation.



Deleted User 9015

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:50 pm

Rate This wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:50 pm
km1125 wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:33 pm
audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am
The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/
Nice of them to wait till 3 days before election day to do that investigation. What about all those early voters? Don't they deserve to be informed as well?
Is Googling the text of it that damned hard? What is this? 1990?
Clearly more people use newspapers than google in 2022!



User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by Rate This » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:56 pm

Neckbeard wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:50 pm
Rate This wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:50 pm
km1125 wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:33 pm
audiophile wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:53 am
The Detroit Free Press runs article that agrees that Parental Rights are TOAST under Prop 3:

https://www.freep.com/story/opinion/con ... 616083007/
Nice of them to wait till 3 days before election day to do that investigation. What about all those early voters? Don't they deserve to be informed as well?
Is Googling the text of it that damned hard? What is this? 1990?
Clearly more people use newspapers than google in 2022!
Thanks for the correction.. I’ll run out and buy some newspaper stock and a printing plant when I win the powerball later.



User avatar
audiophile
Posts: 8546
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:21 pm
Location: Between 88 and 108 MHz.

Re: No on Prop 3 Ads Lie; Roe is NOT Restored in MI

Post by audiophile » Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:13 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:35 pm
When I cast my ballot today at the clerk’s office, I reread it yet again. It clearly states that it would allow abortion up to the point of viability and not up to the point of delivery except to protect the mother.
You have been snowed!

The language in the amendment purporting to limit the unfettered right to an abortion to only pre-viability cases (essentially the first trimester) is a farce and is unenforceable. The language states:

. . . the state may regulate the provision of abortion care after fetal viability, provided that in no circumstance shall the state prohibit an abortion that, in the professional judgment of an attending health care professional, is medically indicated to protect the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant individual.

This limitation is illusory. It claims to allow state regulation of abortion for post-viability pregnancies; however, it unequivocally states that if a “health care professional” determines an abortion is necessary to protect the “physical or mental health” of the mother, then the state may not regulate such abortions. These terms are intentionally not defined. “Health care professional” presumably includes nurses, counselors, and other non-doctors.

It is hard to imagine a pro-abortion “health care professional” not certifying that a mother’s physical or mental health would be harmed unless the abortion is performed. This is a H*** exemption that permits abortion on demand right up to the moment of birth. This exemption language makes any attempt to regulate post-viability abortions superfluous and of no effect.

For example, if a mother who is 8 months pregnant claims to Planned Parenthood that she will be sad, unhappy, and distressed if she has the baby, Planned Parenthood would be completely protected by the RRFI to perform that late-term abortion and kill the child.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic