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Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 11:17 am

In The Bleachers wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:12 am
MasterB wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 1:35 am
I thought everyone would've been found guilty no way I could let anyone be found not guilty I wasn't following the trial all that much.
It seems since the first indictment, the defendants have been saying it was the informants that were doing cartwheels with a set of pom-poms encouraging the rest "Let's Do This".
Tbh I believe that 100%. If you see interviews or text from trials involving Muslims who were accused of plotting terrorist activities, you see the same pattern. Law enforcement in this country is just getting more and more disgusting by the year.



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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Matt » Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:38 am

From today's Detroit News:
Editorial: Prosecutors failed in Whitmer plot trial, not jury
The Detroit News

Don't blame the jurors in the Gov. Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot trial for returning not guilty verdicts against two of the defendants and deadlocking on the other two.

They acted on the evidence they were presented in the 20-day trial, and their decision reflects the deep flaws in the government's case against the accused plotters.

And yet Whitmer and Attorney General Dana Nessel criticized the jurors, implying they don't care about the safety of public officials or about violent extremism in this country.

"The message is, you can plan to do all kinds of things to the governor of our state and I guess as long as you're stopped before you actually commit the crime that, you know, you can get away with it," Nessel said. "I think it's a terrible message."

That's not the message at all, and Nessel's reckless remarks risk undermining confidence in the integrity of the criminal justice system.

Both she and Whitmer are lawyers. They should understand the responsibility of a jury is to render a judgment based on the evidence presented in court, and not on public sentiment.

There's nothing to suggest this federal court jury of six women and six men seated in Grand Rapids was derelict in that duty.

They deliberated for 38 hours over five days. In the end, they were not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt the defendants were guilty of plotting the governor's kidnapping, or of the other offenses with which they were charged.

It was the prosecution's obligation to convince them, and it failed to do so.

The governor's office issued a statement suggesting the jury's decision leaves public officials vulnerable. But again, that wasn't its job. The jurors' only task was to decide whether the evidence presented in court supported the charges.

Public safety is the responsibility of law enforcement.

Whitmer's office also declared, "There must be accountability and consequences for those who commit heinous crimes. Without accountability, extremists will be emboldened."

But there was accountability here. No defendant gets a "go directly to jail" card when they're arrested. They get a due process card.

These defendants were investigated, charged and brought to trial. That's what accountability looks like.

When they got to court, the serious issues that dogged this case from the beginning could not be overcome.

The FBI used a dozen informants to infiltrate the extremist group. Many of the government's operatives had questionable backgrounds themselves. And one of the lead federal agents in the operation was arrested for domestic violence.

The defense claimed the FBI used the informants to entrap the defendants, leading them to hatch a plot they otherwise had no notion of carrying out. Attorneys for the defendants argued the outline of the plot was drawn up by the FBI operatives, who manipulated and entrapped them and plied them with marijuana.

The outcome doesn't necessarily suggest, as Nessel accused, that jurors felt Whitmer was never in danger. That's not the question they were asked to decide.

Rather, it seems to indicate the jury didn't believe the accused plotters would have come up with the scheme on their own or that they had taken overt action toward the kidnapping.

Prosecutors were not able to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt of the defendants' guilt.

If there's criticism due here, it's of the government's overzealous tactics in investigating the defendants.


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Colonel Flagg
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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Colonel Flagg » Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:58 am

Only leftists and swamp creature republicans would find anything wrong with this verdict. On another note, the Brooklyn subway shooter was interviewed by the feds 19 times. At this point, I'd feel safer with Roscoe and Enos, from the Dukes of Hazzard...or Colonel Flagg, at the CIA.


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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:14 pm

I guess I'm a swamp creature Republican. I think it is ridiculous that Croft and Fox were not convicted (especially the former).

One or both of these men are capable of committing an atrocity similar to the Brooklyn subway shooting.

I am OK with the guy from Lake Orion and the guy from Canton being found not guilty.



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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:09 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:14 pm
I guess I'm a swamp creature Republican. I think it is ridiculous that Croft and Fox were not convicted (especially the former).

One or both of these men are capable of committing an atrocity similar to the Brooklyn subway shooting.

I am OK with the guy from Lake Orion and the guy from Canton being found not guilty.
Damn right.


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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Deleted User 15783 » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:47 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:14 pm
.... One or both of these men are capable of committing an atrocity similar to the Brooklyn subway shooting .....
I also am capable of plowing my car through a crowd of attendees at Royal Oak Beats & Eats. If I started planning out loud how I would go about doing that, should I go to jail? If months before Beats & Eats, I welded a cow catcher to the front of my Ranger, and told others what I plan to do with it, is that enough to convict me?

This truly would be an atrocity that you have to admit anyone with a motor vehicle would be capable of doing.

The thing I find interesting is one of them, Barry Croft, posted on Facebook that he wanted to hang the sitting President. He never got charged with that. I thought that in itself was a crime.



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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Colonel Flagg » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:52 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 7:14 pm

I am OK with the guy from Lake Orion and the guy from Canton being found not guilty.
Thanks for the clarification. I concur.


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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Deleted User 15783 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:56 am

This past Sunday, Chuck Stokes was doing what appears to be a weekly half hour gig on Channel Seven. He was talking with Jim Kiertzner about the topic of this thread. Kiertzner felt that if the trial would of been held on the sunrise side of the state, the defendants would of been found guilty.



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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by Matt » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:45 am

In The Bleachers wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:56 am
This past Sunday, Chuck Stokes was doing what appears to be a weekly half hour gig on Channel Seven. He was talking with Jim Kiertzner about the topic of this thread. Kiertzner felt that if the trial would of been held on the sunrise side of the state, the defendants would of been found guilty.
How would the facts have changed? Court cases aren't based on "feels."


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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Re: Verdicts in Whitmer kidnapping trial have been read

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:34 pm

also am capable of plowing my car through a crowd of attendees at Royal Oak Beats & Eats. If I started planning out loud how I would go about doing that, should I go to jail? If months before Beats & Eats, I welded a cow catcher to the front of my Ranger, and told others what I plan to do with it, is that enough to convict me?

This truly would be an atrocity that you have to admit anyone with a motor vehicle would be capable of doing.
You and I evidently have completely different views of what constitutes "capable."

I would be completely incapable of committing such an atrocity, because even though I own a motor vehicle, mentally and emotionally I would never ever have the nerve nor the desire to perpetrate such a heinous deed.

To answer your question - if anyone were to make formal plans to commit such an atrocity, then 100% yes, you absolutely should either (a) be convicted and sentenced to prison or (b) be locked up in a mental institution.
This past Sunday, Chuck Stokes was doing what appears to be a weekly half hour gig on Channel Seven. He was talking with Jim Kiertzner about the topic of this thread. Kiertzner felt that if the trial would of been held on the sunrise side of the state, the defendants would of been found guilty.
I think Croft and Fox most likely would have been found guilty if the trial occurred in Metro Detroit. Not sure about the other two.



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