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WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
senpaisai
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WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by senpaisai » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:03 pm

The subject says it all -- WMYD 20.1 has disappeared in Monroe County. I can only pick up 20.2 Antenna TV with a πŸ’― signal on my Vizio V505-G9 but nothing else. I'm at the corner of Telegraph and Stewart in a 2nd floor apartment with my indoor YAGI pointed towards Ann Arbor. Today (and only today, I might add) I'm getting 41 channels ...

WDIV (clear for now)
WTVG (strongest station)
WMYD (20.2 only)
WNWO (weak/garbled)
WGTE (drop outs)
WPXD (Solid and stable)
WUPW (Solid and stable)
WTVS (weak/garbled)
WWJ (DEAD! Video Format Not Supported)

Anyone else?!? This is weird ... especially for WMYD! 😳



km1125
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by km1125 » Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:58 pm

As part of the ATSC3.0 launch, all three of the ATSC1.0 subchannels are being carried by other transmitters.

WMYD 20.1 was moved to sister station WXYZ-TV, while 20.2 was moved to WDIV-TV and 20.3 was moved to WJBK.

I don't see WXYZ on your list. Can you pick that up? If not, THAT is the reason you're not seeing 20.1 either.



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SolarMax
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by SolarMax » Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:12 pm

senpaisai wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:03 pm
The subject says it all -- WMYD 20.1 has disappeared in Monroe County. I can only pick up 20.2 Antenna TV with a πŸ’― signal on my Vizio V505-G9 but nothing else. I'm at the corner of Telegraph and Stewart in a 2nd floor apartment with my indoor YAGI pointed towards Ann Arbor. Today (and only today, I might add) I'm getting 41 channels ...

WDIV (clear for now)
WTVG (strongest station)
WMYD (20.2 only)
WNWO (weak/garbled)
WGTE (drop outs)
WPXD (Solid and stable)
WUPW (Solid and stable)
WTVS (weak/garbled)
WWJ (DEAD! Video Format Not Supported)

Anyone else?!? This is weird ... especially for WMYD! 😳
When's the last time you did a digital channel scan?
Much has changed with the repack and with the inauguration of ATSC 3.0 testing.

WMYD 20.1 (ATSC 1.0 / HD) is on RF 25 from the WXYZ tower.
20.2 is on RF 32 on the WDIV tower.
WTVS (ATSC 1.0), WWJ-TV (ATSC 1.0) and WMYD DT (ATSC 3.0)are on the same candelabra platform on the 8 Mile Rd./Meyers tower.
WMYD's site is presently hosting the ATSC 3.0 signals of WMYD, WWJ-TV WJBK-TV, WDIV and WXYZ

WWJ-TV (62.1-.4) is not transmitting any sort of "Not Supported" formats on RF 21.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:21 pm

No WTOL (CBS from Toledo) on the list?

Keeping track of the natural RF channel the corresponds to each PSIP channel (i.e. the "fake" channel number that appears on your TV upon tuning to a scanned channel stored in memory) is a virtually impossible task these days, for the reasons km1125 aptly described in his post.

Older HDTV sets made it easy to look up such info, but some of the newer sets (such as my Samsung) make it extremely difficult to pull up such info.



senpaisai
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by senpaisai » Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:33 am

SolarMax wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 09, 2021 6:12 pm
When's the last time you did a digital channel scan?
Much has changed with the repack and with the inauguration of ATSC 3.0 testing.

WMYD 20.1 (ATSC 1.0 / HD) is on RF 25 from the WXYZ tower.
20.2 is on RF 32 on the WDIV tower.
WTVS (ATSC 1.0), WWJ-TV (ATSC 1.0) and WMYD DT (ATSC 3.0)are on the same candelabra platform on the 8 Mile Rd./Meyers tower.
WMYD's site is presently hosting the ATSC 3.0 signals of WMYD, WWJ-TV WJBK-TV, WDIV and WXYZ

WWJ-TV (62.1-.4) is not transmitting any sort of "Not Supported" formats on RF 21.
This explains everything. I got these 41 channels from a scan last night and I sometimes rescan weekly just to see if I can pick up a DXed signal from Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or Ontario.

Depending on the weather, my TV will pick up between 20 to 40 channels, but whether they'll display anything or not is a whole different can of worms. I do believe with certainty that my TV does have an ATSC 3.0 tuner because I remember picking up the test signals and simulcasts just before the last repack. But that also has effected the channels I used to get.

For example, before the repack, I couldn't get WUPW at all, WTOL had some dropouts, and WNWO and WTVG were my strongest Toledo stations followed by WJBK, WXYZ, and WWJ out of Detroit. Now WJBK and WWJ never come in, WXYZ, WPXD, and WDIV are a 50/50 gamble, I can forget about WTOL and WNWO, and I'm pretty much stuck with WTVG and WUPW, so I mostly watch MeTV, DEFY, and Newsy. I used to stream BUZZR with my FireTV but Xfinity's got me in the walled garden until I throw $181 at them! πŸ˜‚

Landlords's $2,000 comes first ... πŸ˜”



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:28 pm

It's bizarre you can get WTVG but not WTOL. Both are VHF-hi signals, as each broadcasts on its respective PSIP channel. WTOL cranks out a little more power than WTVG and its transmitting antenna is higher, too.

I would suggest adjusting your antenna or purchasing a new antenna and then rescanning.

Numerous stations were doing test broadcasts with ATSC 1.0 signals before the last repack, btw. Any TV more than a couple years old is very unlikely to have ATSC 3.0 reception capability. Most new sets still lack it.



km1125
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by km1125 » Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:29 pm

I'm wondering why you're pointed to Ann Arbor. Something there you are trying to pick up? Seems like you'd want a more northerly/southernly orientation to get the most signals between the Detroit market and the Toledo market



senpaisai
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by senpaisai » Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:27 pm

MWmetalhead wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:28 pm
It's bizarre you can get WTVG but not WTOL. Both are VHF-hi signals, as each broadcasts on its respective PSIP channel. WTOL cranks out a little more power than WTVG and its transmitting antenna is higher, too.

I would suggest adjusting your antenna or purchasing a new antenna and then rescanning.

Numerous stations were doing test broadcasts with ATSC 1.0 signals before the last repack, btw. Any TV more than a couple years old is very unlikely to have ATSC 3.0 reception capability. Most new sets still lack it.
My antenna is in the bedroom sitting on top of a dresser with 3 amplifiers on it. It's an Ollie's POS I've had for years! πŸ˜‚ I'm on the 2nd floor of 3 floor apartment complex with east facing windows, so I'm lucky to get anything. But I get the most channels by pointing it between Ann Arbor and Southfield, and if I want WTOL and WJBK bad enough, I have to move the antenna into the living room and point it due north straight down the hallway, but I'll lose the other Detroit stations in the process.

I used to live on the 3rd floor here. Corner apartment with a west facing window. Got everything between Detroit, Windsor, and Toledo. Oh, and I got a Ryzen 3600 rig on a desk just 10 feet away from the TV in front of the east facing window. Once I sit down, turn on the wireless mouse, and wake it up, the TV loses all OTA signal from the interference. It's probably why I got the 41 channels the other night - it was the first time I had shut the rig down completely since building it in September! πŸ˜‚

I think WTOL's transmitter is in Point Place and a bit farther out than WTVG'S ...



km1125
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by km1125 » Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:08 pm

Are those amps in series?

You sure you need three amplifiers? I'm guessing the last one is just amplifying noise, along with whatever signal is in there. Will your TV not pick up anything with that last one in-circuit? Have you tried rearranging them to get the one with the lowest noise floor closest to the antenna?



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:50 pm

I was wrong about WTOL transmitting from greater height; the two stations are nearly identical in that regard. WTOL does have greater ERP, though (26 kW versus 20 kW for WTVG).

The two stations' towers are less than 2 miles apart and both are very close to the lakefront; WTVG's is almost on the shoreline itself and is the farther west of the two. Both stations' towers are virtually the same distance from Monroe.

I agree that the microprocessor interference is likely harming TV reception, and I agree with km1125 that all those amplifiers are doing more harm than good, in all likelihood. I would go down to one amplifier first, and if that doesn't result in any improvement, I'd go down to zero amplifiers.

Is your antenna a flat panel style? If so, that antenna type is optimized for UHF, not VHF, reception. If field strength is good enough, VHF-hi reception is still very doable, but the unit will be less forgiving than a simple set of rabbit ears when it comes to reception impediments.

I once owned a Radio Shack set top combo VHF / UHF antenna with built-in amplifier. Bought the unit for about $40 in 2006, I believe. I lived in Warren at the time. With the gain dial on the amplifier turned up about half way, some minor improvement in both analog and digital TV signals was noted. For example, reception of the low power analog station TV-26 from Detroit and of WFUM-TV from Flint was improved, as was the digital signal of WKBD. But if turned that gain dial all the way up, my reception worsened dramatically, and I could hear WOMC's audio bleed through on channel 9 from Windsor!

WJBK (RF 7), WTOL (RF 11) and WTVG (RF 13) all broadcast on the VHF band. Ditto CBET (channel 9) from Windsor.



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SolarMax
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by SolarMax » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:47 am

senpaisai wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:33 am
I do believe with certainty that my TV does have an ATSC 3.0 tuner because I remember picking up the test signals and simulcasts just before the last repack. But that also has effected the channels I used to get. ... πŸ˜”
If you do have an ATSC 3.0 tuner you would likely not be having any trouble with Detroit stations' (WXYZ, WMYD, WWJ-TV, WDIV, WJBK) ATSC 3.0 programming, all of which is originating on RF 25 from WMYD's transmitter and antenna at the 8 Mile/Meyers tower. You would also have "ATSC 3.0" and "NextGen TV" badging with your receiver. At this time, only a few brands (Samsung, Sony and LG) have this capability built-in.
You would have seen test signals and simulcasts before the last repack (which concluded locally in mid-March of 2020) because most stations when possible were running test signals on their "new" repack channels before they shut down their existing transmitters, not related to ATSC 3.0 shuffles.



tvbobn
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by tvbobn » Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:24 am

SolarMax wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:47 am
senpaisai wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 10, 2021 1:33 am
I do believe with certainty that my TV does have an ATSC 3.0 tuner because I remember picking up the test signals and simulcasts just before the last repack. But that also has effected the channels I used to get. ... πŸ˜”
If you do have an ATSC 3.0 tuner you would likely not be having any trouble with Detroit stations' (WXYZ, WMYD, WWJ-TV, WDIV, WJBK) ATSC 3.0 programming, all of which is originating on RF 25 from WMYD's transmitter and antenna at the 8 Mile/Meyers tower. You would also have "ATSC 3.0" and "NextGen TV" badging with your receiver. At this time, only a few brands (Samsung, Sony and LG) have this capability built-in.
You would have seen test signals and simulcasts before the last repack (which concluded locally in mid-March of 2020) because most stations when possible were running test signals on their "new" repack channels before they shut down their existing transmitters, not related to ATSC 3.0 shuffles.
WMYD 3.0 is on RF channel 31. WXYZ 1.0 is on RF channel 25.


Frontier Airlines SUCKS! They're a bunch of thieves. Don't fly with them!

senpaisai
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Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:37 pm

Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by senpaisai » Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:43 pm

km1125 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:08 pm
Are those amps in series?

You sure you need three amplifiers? I'm guessing the last one is just amplifying noise, along with whatever signal is in there. Will your TV not pick up anything with that last one in-circuit? Have you tried rearranging them to get the one with the lowest noise floor closest to the antenna?
The antenna itself claims to have a 30db gain but its more like 10db. It worked well on the 3rd floor apartment but once I moved down one floor and across the hall, I was only getting WTOL (until Noon), WTVG, and WNWO. WUPW was a pain to pull in. I had the antenna in the living room back then. About a year later, I was working overnights at Lowe's and noticed an RCA 4 Way Splitter/10db Amp for like $30 so I used my discount and snagged it since I was going to need it eventually when I bought a 4K TV. That didn't seem to help much with reception as so much as cleaning and balancing the signal out.

Then earlier this year at Meijer, I saw an RCA inline amp for $15 a figured why not?!? Hooked it directly into the 4K and it helped pull in WJBK, WXYZ, and WUPW but I eventually suspected that the previous RCA splitter/amp died or became a dud so I had removed it until just last week when I realized I could still hook it up without the sectionals of coax I threw out recently. The RCA amps are AC powered so there's no off/on switch, but the antenna's amp/rotor box has a switch to turn off the amp. I'll turn it off later and see what happens because I've suspect too much gain is knocking out the high band VHF ...

Heh. This antenna is listed as an indoor/outdoor unit but one look at it will tell you instantly that it would not survive a weak storm with pebble sized hail! πŸ˜‚ It'll be replaced with a ClearStream in my next life!



senpaisai
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by senpaisai » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:36 pm

MWmetalhead wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:50 pm
Is your antenna a flat panel style? If so, that antenna type is optimized for UHF, not VHF, reception. If field strength is good enough, VHF-hi reception is still very doable, but the unit will be less forgiving than a simple set of rabbit ears when it comes to reception impediments.
Let me try finding a picture and link it ...
https://www.amazon.com/QFX-ANT-106-Outd ... B0065MCEW4

That's the POS, alright ... πŸ˜‚

Sad thing is I bought that to replace this one I accidentally knocked over and busted ... πŸ˜’
https://www.amazon.com/TV-Antenna-Outdo ... 7266&psc=1

That antenna rocked! 😁
I once owned a Radio Shack set top combo VHF / UHF antenna with built-in amplifier. Bought the unit for about $40 in 2006, I believe. I lived in Warren at the time. With the gain dial on the amplifier turned up about half way, some minor improvement in both analog and digital TV signals was noted. For example, reception of the low power analog station TV-26 from Detroit and of WFUM-TV from Flint was improved, as was the digital signal of WKBD. But if turned that gain dial all the way up, my reception worsened dramatically, and I could hear WOMC's audio bleed through on channel 9 from Windsor!
My mother lived just west of the Monroe County Fairgrounds and bought a pair of cheP QFX rabbit ears from Ollie's and commissioned me to figure out why she couldn't get them to work. After some trial and error, I found that the best place for the antenna was on top her fridge and pointed out the kitchen window towards WTOL but I couldn't let the coax dangle as either she or her two pekingese fleabags would trip over it. The distance between the fridge and the TV was 10 feet. So with white duct tape that matched the ceiling, I taped both the coax and AC adapter cable overhead in strips and then down the side of the opposite wall. When the tape would give, she could tear off a replacement.

Channel scan later, she got half of Detroit and all of Toledo except WTOL and WWJ and WJBK we're dropping out. She was not having that at all. She couldn't miss her afternoon CBS soaps! Oh, heaven's no. Everything I did didn't help until I noticed the gain was set awfully high. I slowly dial it back until WTOL came in, and that also fixed WJBK and WWJ. So I had her do a final scan ... and she got everything from Toledo, Ann Arbor, Detroit, and Windsor except the LP channels like WMNT. That setup lasted until her passing in 2016 and one night 5am or so she did a rescan only to call out to me, "Come here and look at this!" I come out there and see a silver CBS logo and gold "2" in the corner. "That's not Fox2, ma!" Turns out her rescan picked up Channel 2 from Pittsburgh and mashed them together with WJBK. As she kept flipping channels, I'm seeing WKYC, WEWS, WJW, CTV, WOIO, TVO ... πŸ˜‚

They had knocked out everything local. Since I couldn't explain to her the concept behind DXing, I said, "Just watch something until the sun comes up and then rescan. That'll fix it!"



SolidGoldDancers
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Re: WMYD 20.1 gave up the ghost

Post by SolidGoldDancers » Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:55 pm

km1125 wrote: ↑
Sat Dec 11, 2021 2:08 pm
Are those amps in series?

You sure you need three amplifiers? I'm guessing the last one is just amplifying noise, along with whatever signal is in there. Will your TV not pick up anything with that last one in-circuit? Have you tried rearranging them to get the one with the lowest noise floor closest to the antenna?
That's why no WTOL, it sent the preamps non-linear.



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