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Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
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Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:44 pm

Story #1:
City of Detroit revenue. With so many previously Detroit-based workers working remotely in 2020, undoubtedly income tax collection from nonresidents will take a big hit. Perhaps some folks who were tardy in stopping city tax withholding won't bother filing a city income tax return to claim a refund? Tough to say for sure, but I suspect the city budget will have a big hole that needs to be filled. I also think some folks who left in 2020 won't be returning anytime soon. Employers realize forcing their employees to work downtown on a regular basis is a competitive disadvantage!

I've yet to see any sort of comprehensive reporting on what is sure to be a major loss in income tax revenue for the City of Detroit. Why are stations ignoring this issue?


Story #2:
The disappointing sales figures for the Ford Escape, which was redesigned in late 2019. 2020 models were still being delivered to dealer lots as recently as last month! Those that were previously delivered to dealers in many cases have been sitting around for 120, 150 or even 180 days!

First, the new Explorer launch was a total clusterfuck. Now, it looks like the Ford Escape is getting the shit beaten out of it with regard to sales and is a dud. It's only got a modest lead over the Mazda CX-5 - a far superior vehicle, I might add - despite the fact Ford dealerships outnumber Mazda dealerships many times over.

https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/ford- ... r-2020-q3/



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Rate This » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:53 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:44 pm
Story #1:
City of Detroit revenue. With so many previously Detroit-based workers working remotely in 2020, undoubtedly income tax collection from nonresidents will take a big hit. Perhaps some folks who were tardy in stopping city tax withholding won't bother filing a city income tax return to claim a refund? Tough to say for sure, but I suspect the city budget will have a big hole that needs to be filled. I also think some folks who left in 2020 won't be returning anytime soon. Employers realize forcing their employees to work downtown on a regular basis is a competitive disadvantage!

I've yet to see any sort of comprehensive reporting on what is sure to be a major loss in income tax revenue for the City of Detroit. Why are stations ignoring this issue?


Story #2:
The disappointing sales figures for the Ford Escape, which was redesigned in late 2019. 2020 models were still being delivered to dealer lots as recently as last month! Those that were previously delivered to dealers in many cases have been sitting around for 120, 150 or even 180 days!

First, the new Explorer launch was a total clusterfuck. Now, it looks like the Ford Escape is getting the shit beaten out of it with regard to sales and is a dud. It's only got a modest lead over the Mazda CX-5 - a far superior vehicle, I might add - despite the fact Ford dealerships outnumber Mazda dealerships many times over.

https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/ford- ... r-2020-q3/
I’ve got one of the old boxy style escapes from 2011. The thing has 247,000 miles... it’s really a Mazda 6 under the skin and has a Mazda engine. The 2013-2019 version and this one are all Ford I think.. I’m not sure if they’ll hold up as well.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:07 pm

Yes, Ford dissociated from Mazda a long time ago. I didn't realize that partnership was still alive as recently as 2011, I must admit.

I love the boxy style Escape. Great generation for that vehicle. The current style Toyota Rav-4 reminds me a bit of that generation of the Escape.

I did not like the 2014-ish redesign even though it saw sales success; looked too much like a big Ford Focus and too feminine.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Rate This » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:03 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:07 pm
Yes, Ford dissociated from Mazda a long time ago. I didn't realize that partnership was still alive as recently as 2011, I must admit.

I love the boxy style Escape. Great generation for that vehicle. The current style Toyota Rav-4 reminds me a bit of that generation of the Escape.

I did not like the 2014-ish redesign even though it saw sales success; looked too much like a big Ford Focus and too feminine.
In fact the last year for the Mazda based escape was 2012 (!). The 2013 redesign and the current one was based on the European designed Ford Kona and was simply Americanized.

Good eyes... the Kona/2013+ Escape uses the same underpinnings as the Focus and C-Max of that era. Ford is trying to streamline its lineup and build “world cars” simply changed for each market.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:53 pm

I considered a new Escape when looking at cars late last year. They are putting 3-cylinder engines in these things and trying to sell them for $30,000. Plus it feels like plastic shit on the inside. I used to be a Ford man, I've owned two escapes (2002 and 2005). Also owned a Ranger, Mustang, and two Grand Marquis. After test driving the new Escape and the enthusiasm the sales guy had for such obvious garbage, I believe I am done with Ford for good.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by kc8yqq » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:34 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:07 pm
I did not like the 2014-ish redesign even though it saw sales success; looked too much like a big Ford Focus and too feminine.
My wife bought a 2014 right off the lot. It was a piece of junk with getting countless recall notices, so many we lost count. She traded it in a year later. Combining it with the issues I was having with a 2005 Ford F350 Powerstroke dually, we no longer will ever consider buying a Ford again.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by zzand » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:58 am

My oldest daughter bought a new 2014 Escape and ended up using the Lemon Law to get out of it. It ate transmissions like Skittles. Part of the buy back deal was a great deal on a loaded Fusion. That car now has almost 100 thousand on it, even though it has been a recall magnet, but she has already said when she finally runs it into the ground she is done with Ford.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:13 am

I agree with some of the recent comments. Interior materials quality of Ford vehicles definitely leaves something to be desired. I lease a vehicle with a sticker of $48k - have had it for 20 months now - and within the first 90 days of driving it, the sun visor on the driver side came loose and damn near fell into my lap. Thankfully, I was able to refasten it and have had no issues since. Shitty ass plastic parts.

I will say the heat, including the heated seats, work tremendously well. A/C? Somewhat disappointing. Not nearly as powerful blower wise as the A/C in my three prior Ford vehicles. I have to crank it to setting 4 of 6 to get the same volume of air I received on setting 2 of 6 with my prior vehicle! The ventilated seats also don't seem to work well at all, even when I have that featured turned on full bore. For the price point, I was expecting much better functionality. (Test drove the vehicle on a 60 degree cloudy day, so I was unable to fully appreciate the mediocrity of that feature.)

The 8-speed dual clutch transmission doesn't always shift smoothly unless you "floor it." Not uncommon for DCT's, but again, for the price point, I expected better. With traction control turned off, shifting does seem smoother, for whatever reason. The ride is also less firm. Turbo lag? Yes - it's there.

On the bright side, my vehicle still has a recessed touch screen, not one of the gaudy oversized tablet style touch screens, so I'm happy about that. My Sync 3.3 was getting very buggy. Upgrading the firmware to Sync 3.4 fixed those issues, and I must say, the new Sync 3.4 GUI is very pleasing to the eyes.

Gas mileage in the city is as advertised, but I get about 2 miles per gallon less on the freeway than the sticker claims. This is the first Ford vehicle I've leased that's underperformed the mileage rating on the freeway.

For an AWD vehicle, there should be more drive modes than just "normal" and "sport," although I will say the vehicle handles reasonably well in snow and slush even with all-season tires. (I strongly recommend all-weather tires for those who wish to purchase their vehicles and don't wish to purchase dedicated winter tires.) This is where I give Chevy some credit. In upper trims of the AWD version of the Blazer, the driver has the ability to switch between AWD and front wheel drive via rotary dial.

I only have 15,000 miles on my vehicle (would've had closer to 25k if not for COVID), so obviously no "under the hood" issues or brake issues at this point.

I will strongly consider purchasing my next vehicle, and it most likely will not be a Ford. I'm leaning Mazda, Toyota or Acura.
It ate transmissions like Skittles.
I guess that generation of the Escape has *that* particular trait in common with the Ford Focus as well! Ford vehicles have had some really shitty transmissions lately, although none are as bad as the dry dual clutch model used in the Focus and Fiesta for a good chunk of the 2010s.

Ford also has an atrocious water pump design on some of its vehicles (Scotty Kilmer has a good YouTube video about that issue).



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by SoutheastMIViewer » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:15 am

I was turned off by the Ford dealership practice when I was youn.

When I was in the market to lease my first car, I was looking at the sale papers. I went to the dealership to inquire about the sale price and was told that price was for Ford employees only. The dealership would not honor the price they have in the general public sales ad.

Makes no sense because if you look at a meijer sales paper, the prices reflect for the customer and not meijer employees.


Till this day I have not set foot in a Ford dealership or even thought about buying/leasing a Ford


If you don’t have a mask covering your exhaust pipe on the car, you are not trying to stop global warming by preventing the harmful emission particles from spraying out!

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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:28 am

Very common in SE Michigan. Most published prices for the "Big 3" are employee pricing with all possible incentives. In tiny, four point or five point sized font, that fact is almost always mentioned.

Now, I cannot speak to whether or not GM or Chrysler are willing to grant employee pricing to prospective buyers or lessees. Ford usually will not give A/Z plan pricing to the general public; some salesmen will say straight-up that it is forbidden by corporate. Despite my gripes about my current car, I did receive what I thought was a very fair deal price wise. Received a 40,500 mile allotment over 3 years and total lease cost is only 34% of sticker for a car that probably won't hold its value terribly well.

My last transaction with a GM dealer was 2006, and in all honesty, I don't recall checking ads prior to going car shopping that year.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Rate This » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:48 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:28 am
Very common in SE Michigan. Most published prices for the "Big 3" are employee pricing with all possible incentives. In tiny, four point or five point sized font, that fact is almost always mentioned.

Now, I cannot speak to whether or not GM or Chrysler are willing to grant employee pricing to prospective buyers or lessees. Ford usually will not give A/Z plan pricing to the general public; some salesmen will say straight-up that it is forbidden by corporate. Despite my gripes about my current car, I did receive what I thought was a very fair deal price wise. Received a 40,500 mile allotment over 3 years and total lease cost is only 34% of sticker for a car that probably won't hold its value terribly well.

My last transaction with a GM dealer was 2006, and in all honesty, I don't recall checking ads prior to going car shopping that year.
Which model and year of Ford do you have?

I also have a 2008 Buick Lucerne with 175,000 miles on it. Both it and the Escape are getting their various wear and tear ailments fixed up. My goal is to run the escape till an engine or transmission go out or other serious issue occurs. I’ll have the Lucerne which I bought used paid off in a few months. I only buy used cars because of the instant depreciation when you drive a new one off the lot and a lease being the most expensive way to obtain a vehicle if you plan on eventually purchasing it. That said I want to be without a car payment as long as possible and as long as repairs to either vehicle don’t exceed $4000 in a calendar year (assuming a slightly over $300 car payment if I replaced one of them) they’ll remain in rotation. The Buick is even getting an aftermarket touchscreen radio added soon. It sounds like Ford will not be considered for my next vehicle. I’ll probably go with Buick. They have consistently been top 5 reliability among all brands for years on end.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by rushbuzz1013 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:30 am

Reminds me of the scant amount of coverage during the juddering Ford transmissions problem recently. Very little was ever said while people, like my son, sunk hard earnings into their inferior Fiestas FOR YEARS. Oh the scandal did finally break, but not before people got royally fucked. Every visit to the dealership resulted in some sidestepping excuses and wasted time.
Shame on anyone involved. For this reason, I will never buy the brand. Never.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:07 pm

I give the Detroit Free Press credit for its extensive reporting of the recent Ford scandals. They broke the news of the botched Explorer launch and put the Focus and Fiesta tranny issues on the public awareness radar.

To answer Rate This - 2019 Ford Edge ST. Sticker price is laughable. They were giving about $10k in incentives away to all buyers for a while in 2019 for that particular trim. The other options in the class stunk at the time. CX-5, a compact SUV, was tempting but not enough of a savings given the size downgrade. CX-9 was seven inches lengthier than my Edge yet had less cargo room (lease offers were also pricier). I hated how the Honda CRV looked at the time, so I never gave it serious consideration. Hated how the Chevy Equinox looked even more. The Blazer had just launched, is built in Mexico, and in that model year lacked an auto stop-start deactivation button. GMC Terrain? Didn't have the best experience with my '06 Envoy, and rear visibility out of the Terrain looks like it would be poor. Hyundai Sante Fe? Great interior, but minivan like side profile and somewhat ugly grill. Kia Sorrento was too bland at the time. Kia Telluride- great design but too big. Toyota Rav-4 had just launched its current generation and reviewers weren't pleased with its acceleration, engine note and cabin noise.



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Rate This » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:07 pm
I give the Detroit Free Press credit for its extensive reporting of the recent Ford scandals. They broke the news of the botched Explorer launch and put the Focus and Fiesta tranny issues on the public awareness radar.

To answer Rate This - 2019 Ford Edge ST. Sticker price is laughable. They were giving about $10k in incentives away to all buyers for a while in 2019 for that particular trim. The other options in the class stunk at the time. CX-5, a compact SUV, was tempting but not enough of a savings given the size downgrade. CX-9 was seven inches lengthier than my Edge yet had less cargo room (lease offers were also pricier). I hated how the Honda CRV looked at the time, so I never gave it serious consideration. Hated how the Chevy Equinox looked even more. The Blazer had just launched, is built in Mexico, and in that model year lacked an auto stop-start deactivation button. GMC Terrain? Didn't have the best experience with my '06 Envoy, and rear visibility out of the Terrain looks like it would be poor. Hyundai Sante Fe? Great interior, but minivan like side profile and somewhat ugly grill. Kia Sorrento was too bland at the time. Kia Telluride- great design but too big. Toyota Rav-4 had just launched its current generation and reviewers weren't pleased with its acceleration, engine note and cabin noise.
Out of curiosity what makes a lease a good option for you? Everything I’ve heard from financial “experts” says to avoid them but knowing that you work in finance I’m curious as to the reasoning...



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Re: Two major stories the Detroit media seem to be ignoring

Post by Realist » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:34 pm

We have 9 Focuses at work and 2 are being replaced this month with Malibu’s. They do not hold up by any means and are start falling apart at about 70-75K miles. Complete junk. Had a mechanic tell me a term several years ago of what most mechanics thought of these cars - “throw away cars”. Further just had our local Police Chief tell me why they bought Durango’s versus the Explorer PPV. He said that a neighboring department can’t keep them on the road more than 6 months without replacing a transmission or engine. That departments Chief told me last summer they were strongly considering switching over to Tahoe’s.

Mark - have you ever looked at the Lansing made Chevy Traverse? Decent gas mileage and a very room vehicle. I’m 6’3 and 290 and was shocked at how comfortable and roomy it is. Friend of mine has a Traverse Premiere and can’t stop saying how it’s the best vehicle she’s ever owned.



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