All accepted registrations through August 15 at 7:00p ET have been activated. Thank you! -M.W.

Please note: Terms of Use have been amended effective June 9, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30571

All user accounts that have been inactive since January 1, 2017 have been expunged. If you are one of these users and wish to submit a new post, please re-register. Thank you.

CBSDetroit62

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
User avatar
TheForce
Posts: 856
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:12 pm

CBSDetroit62

Post by TheForce » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 am

I have always wondered this. Why is such a high channel number like 62 being used?



kc8yqq
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:15 am

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by kc8yqq » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:06 am

CBS was originally on WJBK TV2 until the station abruptly switched to Fox, leaving CBS without a station in the Detroit market. WGPR TV62 was locally owned and I believe the only station up for sale/available when CBS bought it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.



User avatar
ZenithCKLW
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Livonia, MI
Contact:

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by ZenithCKLW » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:09 am

That's mostly correct. Although, a minor detail is that CBS didn't buy 62 until a few years after CBS obtained their affiliation.

Remember, "Punch 62, CBS!"



User avatar
SolarMax
Posts: 435
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:59 pm
Location: 313

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by SolarMax » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:25 pm

kc8yqq wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:06 am
CBS was originally on WJBK TV2 until the station abruptly switched to Fox, leaving CBS without a station in the Detroit market. WGPR TV62 was locally owned and I believe the only station up for sale/available when CBS bought it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
WGPR-TV wasn't actually up for sale at the time. CBS, desperate for a Detroit market affiliate ahead of losing affiliation with soon-to-be FOX O&O WJBK, made the owners an "offer they couldn't refuse," to make an outright purchase of the station. Affiliation did switch over, and after some wrangling over legal and community issues, the deal to buy was closed.



Deleted User 14888

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by Deleted User 14888 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:49 pm

It’s to bad Channel 4 didn’t keep the WWJ Heritage calls, Why did the get rid of them in the first place? Stupid move on whoever owned the station at the time.



SixPlusOne
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:03 am

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by SixPlusOne » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:00 pm

TheForce wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 am
I have always wondered this. Why is such a high channel number like 62 being used?
Originally specific channels were available in each television market. Detroit has available to it Channels 2,4,7,20, 38, 50, 56, 62. As most of you know Channel 62 was available in the sixties and WXON-TV applied for it. Because it was such a high frequency it became difficult to put out a good signal at that time which led to their decision to switch to the unused Channel 20 with obviously a much lower frequency which solved their signal problems.

Regarding CBS having to find a different local station it sought out Channel 31 and 20 but they said no as I understand it. This meant the focus shifted in the direction of WGPR-TV which also had some signal issues.

I believe to this day that CBS taking WGPR-TV was the best thing that could happen since CBS technicians came in to work on GPR's transmitter and made some initial corrections which was a much needed improvement. Their technical plan evolved to completely replace the transmitter and tower and essentially go forward with a clean slate regarding the signal.

To this day I believe that no one has any problem receiving Channel 62 and for WGPR to pick up CBS affiliation and all the technical improvements has got to have been a significant plus for any struggling independent station.



User avatar
RingtailedFox
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:11 pm
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Contact:

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by RingtailedFox » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:23 pm

CBS never had the best relations with its affiliates and a series of stupid mistakes in the late 1980s caused them to get relegated to nosebleed channel numbers (or risk being shut out entirely) in cities like Detroit, Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Cleveland, when their heritage VHF affiliates decided to jump ship.

4 was affiliated with NBC, the highest-rated network at the time. CBS was in distant third. It was a no-brainer.

7 actually did strongly consider bailing from ABC to CBS. Scripps actually said "okay ABC. We want you to affiliate with our stations in these cities, or we'll flip your former O&O in Detroit to CBS." and they did. ABC did by WJRT 12 (Flint) and WTVG 13 (Toledo) as precautions to try to cover Detroit's outermost suburbs from both ends.

20 did consider going to CBS but for whatever reason chose not to. When they heard that ABC might get booted from Channel 7, they did float the idea of picking up ABC as well, but as we know, that never occurred and they joined The WB.

31 was much closer to LANSING than to Detroit and put in an absolutely craptacular signal to anyone east of Telegraph Road. I could BARELY get 31 in with a set-top antenna, and even my rooftop antenna left a lot to be desired until they went digital.

50 was the "Charter" FOX affiliate (having joined the network when it signed on in 1986). It was one of the network's highest-rated affiliates as well (likely from its widespread cable coverage throughout most of Michigan and a good chunk of Ohio too from its days as a regional "superstation"). Losing FOX was a big blow... but that pain was short-lived, as 50 joined UPN a few months later.

56 is PBS. I'm pretty sure their condition-of-license is that they remain non-commercial/educational. :P

62 was a lower-rated locally-owned independent station. It was okay but was always run on a shoestring budget with archaic technology (its on-air graphics looked like they were from the early 1970s.... in 1993!). I'm fairly sure they would have actually gone dark due to costs incurred for the digital transition. Anyone have a spare $USD 500,000 for a new master control board? :P

The reason Local 4 changed their call-letters was due to a change in ownership. From 1946 to 1978, they were owned by The Evening News Association (The Detroit News). In 1969, the FCC imposed new rules on cross-ownership of both newspaper and radio/television stations. The Evening News (owners of the Detroit News) owned WWJ-AM/-FM/-TV. They were given grandfathered status (an exemption allowing them to retain their radio and TV holdings), but this wouldn't last for too long. They decided to sell the station because they heard the FCC was thinking on banning cross-ownership of newspaper and radio/television stations outright and removing their grandfathered status protection, to prevent monopolies on information and communication in any particular area. While that never came to pass, to my knowledge, the sale went through anyway, to Post-Newsweek Stations (now Graham Media Group). With that ownership change came a new set of call letters: WDIV ("Were Detroit's IV"). The curved-text logo used as WWJ-TV did carry over as WDIV-TV until 1979 before going with their long-lasting red logo they used until 2002. You can check out http://logos.wikia.com/wiki/WDIV-TV to see what i mean in greater detail.

That means that had The Evening News retained ownership of WDIV, it would likely be a Tegna station today!

In case you're wondering what happened to "WWJ-FM"? It's still around, as WXYT-FM 97.1.
Last edited by RingtailedFox on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.


~ The Legendary Raccoon-Fox has spoken!

User avatar
TheForce
Posts: 856
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by TheForce » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Wow, some great information! I never knew 4 was once WWJ! As for WDIV, I don't really like "Local 4" or "Click on Detroit" slogans. I remember back in the day it was tough to pull in high channel numbers even with an outdoor antenna! I don't know if things have changed in that regards with the digital transition.



Deleted User 14888

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by Deleted User 14888 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:00 pm

Can Channel 62 just call it something else they are on RF 44 they should be CBS 44 just think a new image and new identity. WWJ -TV 44 Detroit.



mvcg66b3r
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: Covington TN

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by mvcg66b3r » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:41 pm

RingtailedFox wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:23 pm
CBS never had the best relations with its affiliates and a series of stupid mistakes in the late 1980s caused them to get relegated to nosebleed channel numbers (or risk being shut out entirely) in cities like Detroit, Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Cleveland, when their heritage VHF affiliates decided to jump ship.

4 was affiliated with NBC, the highest-rated network at the time. CBS was in distant third. It was a no-brainer.

7 actually did strongly consider bailing from ABC to CBS. Scripps actually said "okay ABC. We want you to affiliate with our stations in these cities, or we'll flip your former O&O in Detroit to CBS." and they did. ABC did by WJRT 12 (Flint) and WTVG 13 (Toledo) as precautions to try to cover Detroit's outermost suburbs from both ends.

20 did consider going to CBS but for whatever reason chose not to. When they heard that ABC might get booted from Channel 7, they did float the idea of picking up ABC as well, but as we know, that never occurred and they joined The WB.

31 was much closer to LANSING than to Detroit and put in an absolutely craptacular signal to anyone east of Telegraph Road. I could BARELY get 31 in with a set-top antenna, and even my rooftop antenna left a lot to be desired until they went digital.

50 was the "Charter" FOX affiliate (having joined the network when it signed on in 1986). It was one of the network's highest-rated affiliates as well (likely from its widespread cable coverage throughout most of Michigan and a good chunk of Ohio too from its days as a regional "superstation"). Losing FOX was a big blow... but that pain was short-lived, as 50 joined UPN a few months later.

56 is PBS. I'm pretty sure their condition-of-license is that they remain non-commercial/educational. :P

62 was a lower-rated locally-owned independent station. It was okay but was always run on a shoestring budget with archaic technology (its on-air graphics looked like they were from the early 1970s.... in 1993!). I'm fairly sure they would have actually gone dark due to costs incurred for the digital transition. Anyone have a spare $USD 500,000 for a new master control board? :P
You forgot WADL 38, with their short tower in Mt Clemens/Clinton Twp, still putting out a crappy signal, even in digital!



newsguyone
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:43 pm

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by newsguyone » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:18 pm

Wasn't Channel 62 a channel that focused on urban programming?
Like Soul Train. New Dance Show. Etc.
And then when Fox emerged and bought all those big locals, like channel 2, CBS got bumped.

It doesn't mean as much to people in the age of cable tv...but it shook up local tv pretty good when it happened.



User avatar
ZenithCKLW
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:21 am
Location: Livonia, MI
Contact:

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by ZenithCKLW » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:24 pm

The building which housed WGPR-TV 62 (now still housing WGPR-FM) has a Michigan Historical plaque out front describing its urban programming history.

https://www.blackpast.org/african-ameri ... 1975-1995/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... XVIEFsa7cc

http://thescenereunion.com/wgpr-tv-62-2/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... dbF41X48YU
Last edited by ZenithCKLW on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



stopnswop2
Posts: 2625
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:08 pm
Location: Novi, MI
Contact:

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by stopnswop2 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:25 pm

Sweet, thanks for the link!


Music is my life.

User avatar
mtburb
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:28 pm
Location: Wyandotte, 17 miles from Southfield, 38 miles from Oregon

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by mtburb » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:54 pm

RingtailedFox wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:23 pm
7 actually did strongly consider bailing from ABC to CBS. Scripps actually said "okay ABC. We want you to affiliate with our stations in these cities, or we'll flip your former O&O in Detroit to CBS." and they did. ABC did by WJRT 12 (Flint) and WTVG 13 (Toledo) as precautions to try to cover Detroit's outermost suburbs from both ends.
Don't forget also that within the previous years before the realignment, some cable systems within the tri-county area proper already did carry WTVG, WJRT or both, only to largely do away with both stations by 1994 mainly due to Syndex.

According to the FCC Cable search, these tri-county communities were as follows:

Addison Township: WJRT
Belleville: WTVG
Brandon Township: WJRT
Canton Township: WJRT, WTVG
Clarkston: WJRT
Commerce Township: WJRT
Dearborn: WTVG
Gibraltar: WTVG
Groveland Township: WJRT
Hamtramck: WJRT, WTVG
Highland Township: WJRT
Holly (village and township): WJRT
Huron Township: WTVG
Independence Township: WJRT
Lake Angelus: WJRT
Leonard: WJRT
Lyon Township: WJRT
Milford (village and township): WJRT
Northville (city and township): WJRT, WTVG
Ortonville: WJRT
Oxford (village and township): WJRT
Plymouth (city and township): WJRT, WTVG
Pontiac: WJRT
City of Richmond: WTVG
Rose Township: WJRT
Sterling Heights: WTVG
South Lyon: WJRT, WTVG
Springfield Township: WJRT
Walled Lake: WJRT
Waterford Township: WJRT
White Lake Township: WJRT
Wixom: WJRT
Wolverine Lake: WJRT
Woodhaven: WTVG

It's possible that these communities (and likely others served by the same respective cable systems) could've added those respective stations back had ABC moved to a UHF station in the Detroit market.


My furthest DTV tropo: KDKA Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at 202 miles for three days in January 2017 and a night in September 2017 with only an Antennas Direct C2V!

Current setup: Antennas Direct C2Max (2018-present)

User avatar
RingtailedFox
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:11 pm
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Contact:

Re: CBSDetroit62

Post by RingtailedFox » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:21 pm

WADL 38 was interested, but apparently they wanted too much compensation for having to carry the CBS network shows, from what i was told. Their signal is amazing, though. their analog feed had 5 million watts of power and 1 million as a digital station (the highest allowable), so they could cover everything from Port Huron to Ann Arbor. Aside from picking up Fox Kids, they were an also-ran. I agree that their programming could be better, but from a technical standpoint, there's little to complain about.

Yes, WGPR had urban shows that were fairly popular, despite their lower power and budget issues.

People have suggested that CBS re-brand WWJ as "CBS 15" (for its cable positions in Detroit and Windsor, which would be much more tolerable than 62)... though I think they really failed themselves by not getting onto a standardized cable position like 3 or 4 across the viewing area.... but even 44 would be not too bad.. though the FCC might say "you have to use your former analog channel number for your virtual channel..."

*IF* ABC had moved to channel 20.... ABC wouldn't be in the worst position in the market. Sure, TV-20's transmitter would need to boost power, but not by a whole lot, since they covered the metro area fairly well as it was and were a very popular independent station before-hand. The ratings would probably triple or so from where they normally would be. That would leave the WB affiliation up for grabs and it would likely land at either 62 or as a time-share on 50. ABC would probably try to start a small news bureau at TV-20 (who up to that point, only carried syndicated news segments from the All News Channel overnight), though I can guarantee that would be in a VERY bad position, going up against the two titans (WDIV Local 4 and WXYZ Channel 7), with also-rans WJBK Fox 2, the very small operation at WKBD 50, and even 62's small news segments all vying for a piece of the pie.

If news weren't a big issue for the network (aside from Good Morning America and ABC World News Tonight), ABC might even see the writing on the wall and just forgo local news entirely like CBS has in Detroit.


~ The Legendary Raccoon-Fox has spoken!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic