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WPON Update - 2019

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
SixPlusOne
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:03 am

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by SixPlusOne » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:49 pm

CK-722 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:38 am

WCXI could have about 10 kW Night, directed North with about six towers, four or five of which are already there. I'd have to look at the tower diagram and spacings again.
The New WCXI-WPON Towers In Wixom

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wixom ... 83.5363268



SixPlusOne
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:03 am

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by SixPlusOne » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:57 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:11 pm
Is WPON on right now?
Since I'm about 2-3 miles from the new transmitting site when they are on for testing I get a strong signal so I don't know if they are testing at full power or with reduced power for testing. It is Saturday at 1:55 PM and they're not on. I have noted that they generally don't perform any testing on weekends. I suspect several testing days next week.



innate-in-you
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by innate-in-you » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:03 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:19 pm
How much is industrial land worth in Garden City anyhow? It’s an OK area, but not exactly booming.

1160 will have almost no night power. Actually, 1460 won’t either.
I'm sure if 1090 threw the towel in and tore the towers down, and were able to get the local government to rezone the land R-3, apartments would be built on it.



CK-722
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:10 am

SixPlusOne wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:49 pm
CK-722 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:38 am

WCXI could have about 10 kW Night, directed North with about six towers, four or five of which are already there. I'd have to look at the tower diagram and spacings again.
The New WCXI-WPON Towers In Wixom

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wixom ... 83.5363268
The way the data was entered into the database is different from the diagram, at least on the record I was looking at. From looking at the satellite views, it looks like the diagram. The database seems to show the Night WPON towers on the West tier of the array. Either is OK. The left tier is ready for either an inline or a dogleg middle tower. The Northeast tower could be the North tower of another three tower inline or another dogleg. The WYLL Lockport facility tower layout is shown correctly on fccdata.org, but the coordinates show the Des Plaines location. So if you look at it, don't get confused. Look at the View Towers and View Night Pattern. The layout and pattern are similar to what would be needed for 10 kW Night, and the side lobes to the East and South would be similar. You could deconstruct the WCXI East Night tower and move it, or if some dogleg arrangement allows it there, fine. CFCO was able to use the towers that were already there for very effective and very different Day and Night Patterns. It's amazing what design software can imagine that we can't. Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through though, or it will do all sorts of weird things.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

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innate-in-you
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by innate-in-you » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:33 pm

SixPlusOne wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:49 pm
CK-722 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:38 am

WCXI could have about 10 kW Night, directed North with about six towers, four or five of which are already there. I'd have to look at the tower diagram and spacings again.
The New WCXI-WPON Towers In Wixom

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wixom ... 83.5363268
But would that put Fenton within the NIF contour?
I'm thinking there's too much skywave interference to meet NIF in its COL.



CK-722
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:57 pm

They don't have to anymore, as I think that requirement has already been relaxed. They will have to modify anyway, because it will be a Class B with 215 watts, as WPON had to modify to Class B and upped the night power from 175 watts Class D to 580 watts Class B, which still doesn't put an NIF over Walled Lake. There's not much point for WPON to go more than 580 watts, since it would just go further into places like Independence Township. But the pattern with a 6 tower "near parallelogram" would put a signal quite a ways, looks like the maximum using the NE tower as the North tower of another tier of WCXI Night towers would be to the North Northwest, toward Fenton and Flint.. Id still want to see the Proof of Performance Radial conductivities. I don't know what pattern WYLL has been using, as they were rebuilding both arrays and using an STA at the alternate site during construction. There's supposed to be a null in the Night WJJD/WYLL pattern toward WCXI and other stations. There is no null in the Day pattern, and when WFEN first came on the air, they were still 50 kW with the 2 tower pattern in Des Plaines until KSL Sunset in Salt Lake City. Don Olmstead told me that they got the FCC to order them to go to 5 kW 4 tower Night Pattern during the WJJD Limited Hours.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

CK-722
Posts: 567
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:53 pm

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:27 pm

The SE Corner of Fenton is 17.5 miles @ 340 degrees true.

IF the conductivity was actually 8 mS/m as on M-3, the FI reaching the SE corner would be 29.5 mVm with the 6 tower pattern similar to the WYLL pattern with a maximum near 340 degrees. At 20 miles, close to the far side of Fenton, the FI be would be 23.6 mV/m. The NIF contour is about 24 mV/m. So theoretically, with 10 kW, 80% at least would be covered, which would be enough, even under old rules. The biggest issue for actual signal would be real conductivity.

It's almost too perfect, at least in theory. But there are a lot of assumptions. Did they design it to retrofit this way? I'm surprised it works this well, even in theory.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

Artificial Intelligence is a Child that needs a Parent to guide it through.

innate-in-you
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:54 am

Re: WPON Update - 2019

Post by innate-in-you » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:07 pm

I was listening to WPON this afternoon in a stopped car at Bagley and I-75 Service Drive.
I don't have an FSM, but compared to field strength figures of many stations in many places, I sincerely guess that their signal is about .02 mV/m. (that is to say, 1/625th the power needed to deliver a protected signal by day).



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