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WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Discussion pertaining to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Port Huron, and SW Ontario
CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:22 am

WCXI is on STA with 250 watts nondirectional from the Wixom area site. The LIC site is still in Fenton. Normally, they don't show the STA contours. I have heard nothing to the effect that the WCXI phasor or transmitter have been installed. The WCXI CP expires 2-15-20.

Based on an 82.8 degree tower with 250 watts and using M-3 (likely to overestimate signal in this area), the 2 mV/m contour would go out about 16 miles, and the 0.5 mV/m would go out about 31 miles. The licensed WPON site at Benstein and Loon Lake Rd., about three miles East, showed much lower field strength than predicted by M-3. As I recall, at 27 miles East the signal was only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the predicted value. I seem to remember that it was around 170 uV/m that I measured, but my measurements can't be located.


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kc8yqq
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by kc8yqq » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:45 am

I noted both stations on yesterday 3-5ish as I was leaving Lafontaine Subaru in Commerce TWp (Maple between M-5/Haggerty). From there I was on my way home (Jackson) and checked in on them from time to time. Both sounded like they had equal signal strength (or close to it). WCXI was playing Spanish music and WPON was playing oldies.



Rich
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by Rich » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:15 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:08 pm
Noting the link below are you in the blue contour?
Those contours are for the longtime, former TX site near Fenton. They are meaningless since the station now broadcasts from Wixom.
The graphic below shows their CP daytime contours for the tx site near Wixom.

The NAD 27 coordinates for the site are 42° 32' 39.00" N Latitude, 83° 33' 36.00" W Longitude.

Image



fuzzpower
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by fuzzpower » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:56 pm

WCXI should have a decent daytime signal when it is actually built. Now they need a format.
WPON has many nulls, but 15 Mile and Haggerty isn’t far from the transmitter in Milford Twp (I think it’s just past Charms Road (lined up with Napier for those to the south).



CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:12 pm

WPON should have moved to the top of a building Daytime nondirectional with ~1 kW, as close as possible to the old TL near Square Lake and Telegraph, instead of just selling the site circa the early to mid 1980s.


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CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:19 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:56 pm
WCXI should have a decent daytime signal when it is actually built. Now they need a format.
WPON has many nulls, but 15 Mile and Haggerty isn’t far from the transmitter in Milford Twp (I think it’s just past Charms Road (lined up with Napier for those to the south).
I suspect that the signal will be much less than the predicted. David Gleason of americanradiohistory.com has a lot of experience and examples from Central and South America where stations would relocate the TL and increase from 10 kW to 100 kW with very disappointing results.


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Rich
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by Rich » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:51 am

CK-722 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:19 pm
... I suspect that the signal will be much less than the predicted. David Gleason of americanradiohistory.com has a lot of experience and examples from Central and South America where stations would relocate the TL and increase from 10 kW to 100 kW with very disappointing results.
For an example, in the case of WLW increasing transmitter power from 50 kW to 500 kW with their non-D antenna, the distance to their 2.5 mV/m daytime groundwave contour for Earth = 8 mS/m, d.c.15 went from 79 miles to 120 miles.*

For a power increase of 10X, the radial distance to their 2.5 mV/m GW field increased about 1.5X.

* based on the FCC database for WLW, and the FCC GW propagation chart for 700 kHz



SixPlusOne
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by SixPlusOne » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:48 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:08 pm
Those contours are for the longtime, former TX site near Fenton. For some reason, FCCdata.org hasn't updated the contour plot to reflect the new TX location.
Here is the update:

https://fccdata.org/?lang=en&appid=1792526&facid=10475



CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:48 am

Remember, they are on 250 nondirectional STA. I have heard nothing recently to indicate testing of the new CP facilities.


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fuzzpower
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by fuzzpower » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:15 am

I was picking WCXI up in north Toledo yesterday, but that was likely due to some atmospheric conditions. CHOK Sarnia was also booming in down there.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:55 am

Both stations are extremely weak in Beverly Hills at the moment, even with cold temperatures and a ton of snow on the ground (which generally enhances groundwave AM reception).

If WPON is broadcasting at a full 670 watts, signal penetration is not even remotely close to engineering projections. From WPON's former Walled Lake site, daytime reception was always rock solid in Birmingham, Troy, Royal Oak, and even Warren.


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CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:51 am

There are some FIM-21s for sale for less money online, but the condition and calibration are iffy, and they don't cover 1610-1700 kHz like the FIM-41, which is more expensive. But I'd really like to back my estimates up with an FI meter. But I'm confident that the FIs are much less. When I was young, we spent time in both the Grand Rapids area and various places in Northern Michigan, and clearly noted the limited signals compared to SE Michigan. The sandy and gravelly soil types in NW Oakland County are similar to Western Michigan and near Roscommon Grayling and Gaylord. This is also backed up by many proof of performance and upgrade applications. The SE Michigan ones that are available online are the WUFL proofs and the WDEO proofs are on the WMVP application. They both show the conductivity nosediving as you approach the site, or lower along the whole radial of WDEO toward the site is lower than M-3.

The heavy snow has affected some signals. I'm not sure if this is because it affects the real path conductivity, or if water is affecting transmission lines and other components. I would assume though that the WPON and WCXI ground system and transmission lines and components are presently in good shape.

The late great Glen Clark told me he was skeptical of some conductivity studies by some consulting engineers, but when they are done by several consulting engineers and they pretty much agree over the same areas and sometimes the same radials, it gives the measurements more credibility. This is the case, as I have looked at scores of applications available online, done by at least three engineering consultants, and they pretty much agree.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

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CK-722
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by CK-722 » Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:03 pm

When I go to the WCXI 1160 Tune In application, there is no audio.

What I'm hearing now on 1160 is some PBP Football Broadcast.

WYLL 1160 on Tune In has a financial advice show.


Is THAT where they got the idea for the 486-SX?

Same (x, y, z), different (t)

Your bullet missed my trial balloon.

RTN Price. Not guaranteed. As of 12:30, 157.71 Down 0.22.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:00 am

Yesterday, 1460's signal seemed more flimsy than that of 1160.

If 1160 is broadcasting with only 250 watts nondirectional, I sure would love to know what 1460 is using!
I would assume though that the WPON and WCXI ground system and transmission lines and components are presently in good shape.
I am not at all sure that is a safe assumption.

Look at how much more quickly 1310 WDTW was able to get up & running at full speed once construction began.


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fuzzpower
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Re: WPON WCXI Updates - 2019

Post by fuzzpower » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:26 pm

Birach will build this as cheaply and stretch it out as long as possible. 1310’s owner sunk quite a bit of dough into rebuilding. I don’t know financially how 1310 is doing, but at least they have more of an idea on how to run a radio station.



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