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Trump's a bigot, news at 11

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Honeyman
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Honeyman » Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:53 am

No. I mean how you can hear Trump say, "I just want to find 11,780 votes", the minimum number needed to overcome Biden's advantage in Georgia, and not think something is amiss. He also tried to intimidate Raffensperger, implying that Raffensperger and his attorney could face a possible criminal investigation. Trump said, "You know, that's a criminal offense. And you know, you can't let that happen. That's a big risk to you."

But you think it's a "perfect phone call" just like your cult leader.


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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Rate This » Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:07 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:41 am
Honeyman wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:29 am
You and bmw hear what you want to hear.
You mean how people like you listen to Trump say "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard" but what you hear is "Now is the time for everyone here to march over to the Capitol building and violently engage in an insurrection."

Is that what you're talking about?
It was the parts about “they are going to take your country away or destroy your country and we can’t let them do that”. There was something to that effect in his speech. Trump doesn’t DIRECTLY say these things. He used dog bullhorns to walk right up to the line and piss across it while saying “didn’t cross it!”. So yeah he told them to go fight like hell, he said it would be wild. He doesn’t have to DIRECTLY say “Hey! Go break in and stop this!” For a message to be communicated to his followers. Those people didn’t walk over there and breach the Capitol and start trying to beat down the house chamber doors spontaneously and without the influence of Trump. He riled those people up and got them foaming at the moth and then they walked over there and did that. How else exactly would they get the idea to go over there and disrupt the counting of the votes?

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Matt » Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:23 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:29 am
km1125 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:26 am
Honeyman wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:21 am
It's the flippant "so what" that's the point.
NOBODY said and did what he did after they lost an election. By accepting his actions after a "fair and square" election allow the Constitution to be shit on.

Defending the extortion on the Raffensperger phone call is absurd, but you'll ignore that and start a thread pumping your chest how wise you were with your Covid predictions.
There was no extortion on the Raffensperger call. Where was the actual threat? Where was the actual words to say (essentially) "fabricate the votes I need"?? Where was the "or else"??
You and bmw hear what you want to hear. But to those of us who use brain matter, it was as plain as day. Just like your cult leader said, he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and his supporters wouldn't care.
It goes deeper than that. Trump could rape or murder a loved one and they'd create a justification. It's a seriously deranged disorder.
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.

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bmw
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by bmw » Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:34 pm

Matt wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:23 pm
It goes deeper than that. Trump could rape or murder a loved one and they'd create a justification. It's a seriously deranged disorder.
You have the aforementioned disorder when it comes to defending the behavior of anyone and everyone associated with the University of Michigan.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Matt » Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:44 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:34 pm
Matt wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:23 pm
It goes deeper than that. Trump could rape or murder a loved one and they'd create a justification. It's a seriously deranged disorder.
You have the aforementioned disorder when it comes to defending the behavior of anyone and everyone associated with the University of Michigan.
Nice dodge, and not remotely true. Trying to win some points with HM?
Voting for Trump is dumber than playing Russian Roulette with fully loaded chambers.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Rate This » Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:50 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:34 pm
Matt wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:23 pm
It goes deeper than that. Trump could rape or murder a loved one and they'd create a justification. It's a seriously deranged disorder.
You have the aforementioned disorder when it comes to defending the behavior of anyone and everyone associated with the University of Michigan.
Well... let's try this one. He selects a female VP. They are alone in a room and he makes comments of a sexual nature or grabs her ass or breasts... does she say anything? Lets up the ante... it's Nancy Mace. Does she smile and take it? Maybe tell him how much she appreciates it?

Does the support go so far as to completely sell your soul to the point he is violating you and it still doesn't matter? A murder of a loved one counts as a violation just as much and it's a question I've posed many times and you can't even bring yourself to say "that is a red line".

I wouldn't discount the chance of this happening if he selects a female VP by the way. He has already demonstrated the necessary ingredients to do so.... the Access Hollywood tape where he brags about "grabbing women by the pussy" and "you can do anything when you're a star" and complete lack of respect for his VP... see Pence; Mike.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by bmw » Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:37 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:07 pm
It was the parts about “they are going to take your country away or destroy your country and we can’t let them do that”. There was something to that effect in his speech.
I can only assume you're referring to where he said "Because you'll never take back our country with weakness."

The entirety of that, in context is:
Most people would stand there at 9 o'clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something's wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened. And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country. And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down...to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
No reasonable interpretation of that speech suggests engaging in violence and breaking in. None.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Rate This » Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:05 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:37 pm
Rate This wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:07 pm
It was the parts about “they are going to take your country away or destroy your country and we can’t let them do that”. There was something to that effect in his speech.
I can only assume you're referring to where he said "Because you'll never take back our country with weakness."

The entirety of that, in context is:
Most people would stand there at 9 o'clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something's wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened. And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country. And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down...to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
No reasonable interpretation of that speech suggests engaging in violence and breaking in. None.
Actually it’s full of dog whistles about losing your country and demanding they count votes a certain way and cheering on the brave senators who will “do the right thing”. Lots of cheering them on when you’re outside and they’re inside. Suuurrrreeeee…

Are you really suggesting they did this absolutely independent of anything Trump ever said? Really?

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by bmw » Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:24 pm

I'm not going to get into whether Trump's speech contained "dog whistles." Because that goes back to exactly what Honeyman said that started this tangent - that people hear what they want to hear.

What I will say though is that the dog whistle argument completely falls apart when the specific language he did use was "peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." If he had simply said we're going to march down to the Capitol Building and I'll be right there with you and never explicitly said to remain peaceful, then maybe you'd have a point. But language interpretation is not necessary in this particular instance since Trump was very specific about what he was calling on his supporters to do.

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TC Talks
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by TC Talks » Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:32 pm

Look, at this point it's fairly clear that Trump voters believe:

A) He is the second coming of Christ
B) He will bring forward Christian Nationalism policy to the executive branch
C) He will stick it to the man
D) Qnon
E) White's are the only people that matter

Trump demonstrates

A) He dislikes the military
B) He doesn't believe in rule of law
C) Can be bought
D) He can't / won't read
E) Makes bad decisions historically

WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO DEBATE ABOUT HIS ABILITY TO GET ELECTED?
“Blessed are those who are righteous in his name.”
― Matt

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zzand
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by zzand » Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:10 pm

BMW,
if what I am about to say offends it is not meant to but I will take the word of one of the few oncologists that can diagnose and treat Pure Red Cell Aplasia over some guy on a message board.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Rate This » Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:19 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:24 pm
I'm not going to get into whether Trump's speech contained "dog whistles." Because that goes back to exactly what Honeyman said that started this tangent - that people hear what they want to hear.

What I will say though is that the dog whistle argument completely falls apart when the specific language he did use was "peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." If he had simply said we're going to march down to the Capitol Building and I'll be right there with you and never explicitly said to remain peaceful, then maybe you'd have a point. But language interpretation is not necessary in this particular instance since Trump was very specific about what he was calling on his supporters to do.
So you are completely absolving him of any culpability on the assumption that these people did this on their own with no influence from his words or actions?

radiofann
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by radiofann » Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:02 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:37 pm
Rate This wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:07 pm
It was the parts about “they are going to take your country away or destroy your country and we can’t let them do that”. There was something to that effect in his speech.
I can only assume you're referring to where he said "Because you'll never take back our country with weakness."

The entirety of that, in context is:
Most people would stand there at 9 o'clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something's wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened. And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country. And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down...to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.
No reasonable interpretation of that speech suggests engaging in violence and breaking in. None.


Trump said “we’re going to walk down to the capitol and I’ll be there with you”

He lied. He went back to the White House and watched on TV. That is dereliction of duty and his personal desertion of comrades.

He does what’s best for himself. Like the night of Jan 4 or 5 2021 in Georgia at the rally complaining about his troubles, he filed to deliver either candidate for the senate for Georgia.

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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by Honeyman » Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:22 pm

What I'll never get is why virtually everybody who worked for Trump in his cabinet, many WH lawyers, his VP,all say he is unfit for office and they will not vote for him. But bmw, km, etc., insist they know the man better than his AG, Defense Secretary, Secretary of State, Cheif of Staff, etc. All these individuals who have first hand knowledge know what a disaster he is and will be in a second term. But that won't convince the cult.
The censorship king from out of state.

bmw
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Re: Trump's a bigot, news at 11

Post by bmw » Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:58 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:19 pm
So you are completely absolving him of any culpability on the assumption that these people did this on their own with no influence from his words or actions?
If nothing he said could be reasonably interpreted as suggesting that people break in violently, then I fail to see where culpability attaches.

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