Treasonous Trump indicted

[bmw]

With Mr. Trusty on the case, I'm sure Trump will be victorious

[hanson]

Just think of the consequences had the government continued to give trump classified briefings as all former presidents typically receive. What a nightmare!

[Ben Zonia]

In backward Third World countries, this is what they typically do, try to get rid of their opponents by locking them up.

It is clear that Biden is not in charge of this operation, there are much more sinister forces at work.

[bmw]

Except that Biden could instantly shut all this down with the announcement of a pardon.

[Ben Zonia]

In this country, you are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Trump does not need a pardon. But they wouldn't let Biden pardon Trump even if he wanted to. He is told everything to do and not do, or he is walked off stage. The people here who hate the Constitution should move to another country whose Constitution is contrary to that and more to their liking. Presidents of the US have wide powers which mainly continue after they leave office. People are confused by all the convoluted legal language.

They started trying to stop Trump even before he announced he was running around 2015. Everything else so far they have thrown out to stop him has turned out to be a sham. Biden's Presidency is a disaster at every level for the people of this country. Only other countries benefit from the policies and decisions being rammed through.

And keep in mind that many innocent people are found guilty by corrupt people.

[bmw]

Ben, I think you need to remove the tinfoil hat and actually read some of the comments/arguments I and others have made in this thread.

The legal language really isn't all that convoluted for anybody with about a 9th grade or higher level of reading comprehension to understand. The indictment is clear and concise, as are the laws under which Trump has been charged. If people would rather just listen to the ramblings of their favorite media personality/pundit instead of taking the time to do the reading, that's their problem.

I agree that Trump may be the victim of a selective prosecution, but Republicans/Conservatives also need to recognize that if a judge doesn't buy that argument, then everything Trump has said and done in the past is going to be used against him in a Court of law. All the screaming bloody murder in the world isn't going to change that reality. And even if Section 793 is unconstitutionally overly broad (which as I've argued earlier I believe it is), that is something that will only get resolved years later through an appeals process.

[TC Talks]

I want a President that loves this country, believes in the WHOLE Constitution and doesn't constantly try to abrogate it or amend it, and strikes fear in our real enemies, here and abroad. If another candidate would be like that, we wouldn't have to have Trump.

You're showing your delusional tendencies again.

Here is an actual fact based discussion on why Trump was charged vs Hillary or Bidenwho weren't. He refused reasonable requests to return the material. What an idiot.

Notably, however, the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives.

That shows that if Trump had simply returned all the classified documents he had, he probably never would have been charged with any crimes, said Robert Mintz, a former federal prosecutor.

“This is not a case about what documents were taken, it’s about what former president Trump did after the government sought to retrieve those documents,” said Mintz, who noted that willful-retention cases often hinge on how much evidence prosecutors can find that a person deliberately hid material or refused to give it back.

Why are the 31 documents listed in the Trump indictment so sensitive?

The indictment offers anecdote after alleged anecdote charging that the former president sought to hide and keep some of the classified papers, so much so that Trump and Nauta are accused of conspiring to obstruct the investigation and scheming to conceal the truth not just from the government, but even from Trump’s own lawyer.

Those allegations include: moving boxes out of a storage room; telling an attorney to search that room for classified material without saying that dozens of boxes were being kept elsewhere; suggesting an attorney hide or destroy documents that had been subpoenaed; and causing another person to make false statements about whether all the classified documents had been produced.

“That’s not the kind of evidence you typically find in a case like this, and it’s certainly not the type of evidence so far that has come out of the Biden investigation or the Clinton email server case,” Mintz said.

[Ben Zonia]

Ben, I think you need to remove the tinfoil hat and actually read some of the comments/arguments I and others have made in this thread.

The legal language really isn't all that convoluted for anybody with about a 9th grade or higher level of reading comprehension to understand. The indictment is clear and concise, as are the laws under which Trump has been charged. If people would rather just listen to the ramblings of their favorite media personality/pundit instead of taking the time to do the reading, that's their problem.

I agree that Trump may be the victim of a selective prosecution, but Republicans/Conservatives also need to recognize that if a judge doesn't buy that argument, then everything Trump has said and done in the past is going to be used against him in a Court of law. All the screaming bloody murder in the world isn't going to change that reality. And even if Section 793 is unconstitutionally overly broad (which as I've argued earlier I believe it is), that is something that will only get resolved years later through an appeals process.

Numerous attorneys, and even many Democrats and Leftist pundits, have said the whole thing is a sham. And it is what goes on in Third World countries.

Unless you are an attorney with real expertise in these matters, I don't think your opinion is any better than anyone else's on this board. It is clear that Democrats have and are getting away with much worse, by factors of ten or more, of what Trump has been alleged to have done.

I know you don't think Trump can win, and that is why you have turned against him.

[TC Talks]

Ben, you should try Previgen or lithium.

[Ben Zonia]

I hope Trump made copies of everything. They probably implicate criminal activity of his enemies.

[TC Talks]

Then, there is this...

Oddly enough, one of the multiple laws covering the mishandling of government information is one that Trump himself amended during his tenure in the Oval Office, as pointed out by Tennessee state Sen. Jeff Yarbro (D) on Twitter.

Tucked into a bill Trump signed into law in January 2018 was a provision increasing the punishment for knowingly removing classified materials with the intent to retain them at an “unauthorized location.”

Previously, someone found guilty of this crime could face up to one year in prison. When former CIA Director David Petraeus was charged in 2015 with mishandling classified data, he pleaded guilty under this statute to avoid a felony charge, as Politico pointed out. A similar situation unfolded a decade earlier, when former national security adviser Samuel Berger pleaded guilty to removing terrorism-related materials from the National Archives in 2005.

Now, a person convicted of violating this law can face up to five years in prison ― making it a felony-level offense to mishandle classified documents under 18 U.S.C. 1924.

Could 2018 Trump have unknowingly put 2023 Trump in a tough spot?

[bmw]

Here is an actual fact based discussion on why Trump was charged vs Hillary or Bidenwho weren't. He refused reasonable requests to return the material. What an idiot.

So are you suggesting that if Trump, like Hillary, had simply destroyed all the remaining documents that he didn't turn over rather than later try to hide them, that then the FBI found after a year-long investigation other copies of many of the documents Trump destroyed, that he wouldn't have been charged?

YOU are the idiot.

[bmw]

Ben - here is where I think you are kind of right. I think that even if Trump had ultimately turned over every single last document the National Archives requested and the FBI raid had turned up literally nothing, I do think he would still be charged with federal crimes. I think they would have instead pinned their case on the 2 documents Trump shared with others and would have charged him under Section 798 in a 2-count indictment.

And to be clear, I haven't "turned" on anybody. I made clear some time ago in here that my preference is for somebody other than Trump due mostly to his refusal to let go of 2020. And it's not that I don't think he can win (I do think there are legit legal defenses to the case brought against him) - rather, it is that I think he's in some deep trouble at the moment. Has nothing to do with my personal opinion. I've read the indictment, I've looked at the laws in question, and I have concluded that he's going to have a tough time fighting the obstruction counts.

[hanson]

trump was entrusted with America's most guarded secrets. He has betrayed that trust and then some.

[Round Six]

... Unless you are an attorney with real expertise in these matters, I don't think your opinion is any better than anyone else's on this board ....

.... I know you don't think Trump can win, and that is why you have turned against him.

Trump will not win in 2024. Your missing something Ben. Everyone casting a vote is not an attorney. Whether the charges and allegations against him are true, false or embellished, it doesn't matter.

Because of the indictments, true or false, Donald Trump will never get nearly as many votes in 2024 as he did in 2020. It's not going to happen. The GOP has to get together and connive some way to screw him out of the nomination. If they weren't using their heads for self proctology, they'd grab some pom-poms and join the Democrats chanting "Convict Convict".

It's all about getting the White House. That's the goal. Remember? If Trump is the GOP nominee, that goal is lost. You know it as well as I do.

Yeah, Donald's faithful can cry Foul all they want. But right or wrong, he will not win next year. That's reality.