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Debt ceiling

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Mega Hertz
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by Mega Hertz » Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:13 pm

I got it! Never mind approving purchases to be made unless it comes from Congress's pockets! Maybe they'll think twice about future purchases if they know it will one day have to be paid through their salary! Can't come up with a solution? Automatic dock. I think Congress could use a little wake-up call. And that goes for D or R.


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TC Talks
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by TC Talks » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:03 pm

Mega Hertz wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:13 pm
I got it! Never mind approving purchases to be made unless it comes from Congress's pockets! Maybe they'll think twice about future purchases if they know it will one day have to be paid through their salary! Can't come up with a solution? Automatic dock. I think Congress could use a little wake-up call. And that goes for D or R.
Who in Congress really need the pay check? Maybe 5.


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Mega Hertz
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by Mega Hertz » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:15 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:03 pm
Mega Hertz wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:13 pm
I got it! Never mind approving purchases to be made unless it comes from Congress's pockets! Maybe they'll think twice about future purchases if they know it will one day have to be paid through their salary! Can't come up with a solution? Automatic dock. I think Congress could use a little wake-up call. And that goes for D or R.
Who in Congress really need the pay check? Maybe 5.
I suppose you got me on that one.


"Internet is no more like radio than intravenous feeding is like fine dining."
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tapeisrolling
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by tapeisrolling » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:26 pm

Add to the no pay for Congress also include the repay of the PPP loans that they all took and neatly forgave themselves.



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TC Talks
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by TC Talks » Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:47 am

At least BMW stopped whining


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MWmetalhead
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:59 am

This entire debt problem goes back to Regan and all of the subsequent folks who have cut taxes as infinitum knowing full well that spending would NEVER be cut because nobody wants their pet project slashed.
The tax cuts during the Reagan and Trump years are not really the issue. U.S. Treasury receipts by year:

https://www.thebalancemoney.com/current ... ue-3305762

I completely agree with you on the spending side of the equation, though!

I'd like for there to a balanced budget law (with exemptions for war time) whereby Congress' pay gets reduced by a sliding scale following any budget year where deficit spending occurs.



Mega Hertz
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by Mega Hertz » Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:01 pm

Sounds like MW and I are at least in the same zip code. I was probably more of a dick about it, but the same idea applies.


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TC Talks
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by TC Talks » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:18 pm

How about corporate taxes pay for the deficits?

Here's my logic: Spending is usually designed to benefit some corporation or industry. This way you punish those that are really making the decisions. When has Congress ever included itself in some form of accountability?


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― Noam Chomsky

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bmw
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:48 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:18 pm
How about corporate taxes pay for the deficits?

Here's my logic: Spending is usually designed to benefit some corporation or industry...
Now you're really showing off your ignorance.

"Corporate taxes" are another way of saying "embedded cost." Do you really think that anybody other than then end consumer ultimately pays these taxes? If you think inflation is bad now, just wait and see where the price of goods goes if you jack up corporate taxes.



bmw
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:53 pm

Rate This wrote:
Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:56 pm
...You can’t cut taxes and blow a hole in the budget repeatedly and expect us not to have a jump in debt...
Nor can you endlessly spend like a drunken sailor.

And if you look at the graph I posted earlier, you'll note that the 2 largest increases in debt-to-GDP ratio came as a result of Covid spending in 2020 and also at the very end of the GW Bush era/beginning of Obama, presumably due to a combination of The Great Recession and Obamacare.

We can talk all we want about "pet projects" or Congressional pay being too high or military spending being too extravagant. I think these are all marginal issues to the larger issue of, the federal government has just plain gotten way, way, way too damn big.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:09 pm

Higher corporate taxes could lead to higher prices, although frankly, I think such impact would be minor at worst.

A more likely outcome would be reduced wages or benefits to employees, along with bearish stock market sentiment. Companies would view new capital investment opportunities with somewhat greater skepticism since the IRR calculus would need to change.

If higher corporate taxes would simply lead to more social program handouts, I'm not interested.



bmw
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by bmw » Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:23 pm

So I assume you would argue the reverse is true as well - that getting rid of corporate taxes altogether would lead to, at most, a modest decrease in the price of goods?

TCT's suggestion that corporate taxes be used to pay for deficits is idiotic in that using 2022 as an example, the deficit was $1.4 trillion and at a corporate tax rate of 21%, the government raises not even $250 billion in revenue from corporate taxes. That means that in order to balance the budget with nothing more than a corporate tax increase, the corporate tax rate would have to be raised to over 100% which would undoubtedly skyrocket the price of goods.



km1125
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by km1125 » Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:33 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:09 pm
Higher corporate taxes could lead to higher prices, although frankly, I think such impact would be minor at worst.

A more likely outcome would be reduced wages or benefits to employees, along with bearish stock market sentiment. Companies would view new capital investment opportunities with somewhat greater skepticism since the IRR calculus would need to change.

If higher corporate taxes would simply lead to more social program handouts, I'm not interested.
I think ALL the above would apply, to some degree or another



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:24 pm

So I assume you would argue the reverse is true as well - that getting rid of corporate taxes altogether would lead to, at most, a modest decrease in the price of goods?
Yes, I would indeed subscribe to that point of view. Debt reduction, dividends to shareholders, capital investment, and increased wages or benefits to employees would all be potential uses.

Wage growth is inflationary if productivity gains don't accompany it.



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TC Talks
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Re: Debt ceiling

Post by TC Talks » Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:53 pm

bmw wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:48 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:18 pm
How about corporate taxes pay for the deficits?

Here's my logic: Spending is usually designed to benefit some corporation or industry...
Now you're really showing off your ignorance.

"Corporate taxes" are another way of saying "embedded cost." Do you really think that anybody other than then end consumer ultimately pays these taxes? If you think inflation is bad now, just wait and see where the price of goods goes if you jack up corporate taxes.
Remind me to use this logic the next time you complain about the minimum wage going up


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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