Gun Safety moves forward

[TC Talks]

It still doesn't legislate weapons designed solely to kill people en mass, but it makes getting a gun as hard as getting alcohol or cigarettes...

The agreement, put forth by 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats and endorsed by President Biden and top Democrats, includes enhanced background checks to give authorities time to check the juvenile and mental health records of any prospective gun buyer under the age of 21 and a provision that would, for the first time, extend to dating partners a bar on domestic abusers having guns.

It would also provide funding for states to implement so-called red-flag laws that allow authorities to temporarily confiscate guns from people deemed to be dangerous, as well as money for mental health resources and to boost safety and mental health services at schools.

[Deleted User 15783]

I worry about red flag laws.
Sounds like a great idea. Until someone gets a grudge against another. Nasty divorce. Family argument. One claims they were threatened just for spite. And a sportsman loses his guns over a fabricated tale.

Don't say it can't happen.
Like your quote says, guns will be confiscated as soon as the accusation is made. And we all can agree the courts will assure an uphill battle and lots of legal fees to get back what the sportsman never should of lost in the first place.

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

It still doesn't legislate weapons designed solely to kill people en mass, but it makes getting a gun as hard as getting alcohol or cigarettes...

The agreement, put forth by 10 Republicans and 10 Democrats and endorsed by President Biden and top Democrats, includes enhanced background checks to give authorities time to check the juvenile and mental health records of any prospective gun buyer under the age of 21 and a provision that would, for the first time, extend to dating partners a bar on domestic abusers having guns.

It would also provide funding for states to implement so-called red-flag laws that allow authorities to temporarily confiscate guns from people deemed to be dangerous, as well as money for mental health resources and to boost safety and mental health services at schools.

It does nothing if the state leaders appoint willfully ignorant assholes to be in charge of it. Do you think some Alabaman CON would care to enforce the law fairly? Doubt it.

[Colonel Flagg]

I worry about red flag laws.
Sounds like a great idea. Until someone gets a grudge against another. Nasty divorce. Family argument. One claims they were threatened just for spite. And a sportsman loses his guns over a fabricated tale.

Don't say it can't happen.
Like your quote says, guns will be confiscated as soon as the accusation is made. And we all can agree the courts will assure an uphill battle and lots of legal fees to get back what the sportsman never should of lost in the first place.

Your fears are probably justified.

Additionally, so called "Red Flag laws" were in place in New York, but turned out to be ineffective in Buffalo. Epic Fail.

[TC Talks]

Fortunately "guns at all cost" philosophy is being put on the shelf. You cannot say that the red flag laws are an epic fail you have no data other than your silly gun-loving opinion.

[bmw]

...but it makes getting a gun as hard as getting alcohol or cigarettes...

Wait a minute...are you suggesting that 18-21 year-olds have any amount of difficulty whatsoever getting their bands on booze or smokes?

[Bryce]

Good thing we don't handle drunk driving the way they want to handle gun control. If they did we just get all the sober drivers off the street so no drunk drivers would kill sober drivers.

[km1125]

I worry about red flag laws.
Sounds like a great idea. Until someone gets a grudge against another. Nasty divorce. Family argument. One claims they were threatened just for spite. And a sportsman loses his guns over a fabricated tale.

Don't say it can't happen.
Like your quote says, guns will be confiscated as soon as the accusation is made. And we all can agree the courts will assure an uphill battle and lots of legal fees to get back what the sportsman never should of lost in the first place.

ANY Red Flag law should include provisions for FELONY charges for anyone caught abusing or misusing that law.

[MWmetalhead]

To imply red flag laws don't work simply because they don't prevent every single shooting is idiotic logic.

If we apply that same logic to law enforcement officers and criminal penalties, then one could argue police forces should be abolished and prison sentences should be abolished. See how stupid that logic sounds?

Km1125 is correct; those who intentionally abuse red flag laws should be prosecuted. I think any risk of such abuse would be very small with such consequences in place.

I've yet to read of a single instance of someone actually losing his or her firearm rights erroneously for any significant length of time due to a false allegation.

[MWmetalhead]

Good thing we don't handle drunk driving the way they want to handle gun control. If they did we just get all the sober drivers off the street so no drunk drivers would kill sober drivers.

I am failing to see the logic in your attempted analogy.

Cops frequently pull over and arrest suspected drunk drivers before they cause any real harm to innocent parties.

A red flag law would be analogous to the above, except a judge would likely be making the decision as opposed to the police officer.

[bmw]

To imply red flag laws don't work simply because they don't prevent every single shooting is idiotic logic.

If we apply that same logic to law enforcement officers and criminal penalties, then one could argue police forces should be abolished and prison sentences should be abolished. See how stupid that logic sounds?

It sounds stupid because the analogy you have presented is a stupid one. People sitting in prison can't commit crimes in the outside world. Hence, a criminal sitting in prison is in fact reducing crime.

I've yet to read of a single instance of someone actually losing his or her firearm rights erroneously for any significant length of time due to a false allegation.

And I have yet to read a single study linking violence in video games to mass shootings, yet, here you are calling for the outright abolition of all violence in video games.

[MWmetalhead]

You missed my point. What I meant was the *threat* of prison time does not prevent all crimes. Similarly, red flag laws will not prevent all shootings.

Obviously, the threat of punishment did not prevent the atrocities in Buffalo, or Uvalde, or Oxford.

That said, the existence of criminal penalties certainly has some beneficial effect in terms of preventing crime. Similarly, if properly utilized, red flag laws will prevent some violent crimes from occurring.

Do I think all violence in video games should be outlawed? No. But especially graphic violence should be outlawed.

My overarching point is this: proposed or existing preventative measures aimed at reducing crime shouldn't be rejected on the mere basis of not being 100 percent effective. Such a litmus test is unreasonable.

[MWmetalhead]

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases ... urnal%20of

[Turkeytop]

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases ... urnal%20of

Nailed it.

That explains all these mass shootings in your country. Access to violent video games.

[MWmetalhead]

It perhaps explains some of the shootings. It is one ingredient in a cocktail of factors.

Numerous countries have restrictions on violent video games:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ideo_games