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The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

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bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 12:07 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:58 am
Look at this pack of cowards...
The New York Times reached out on Wednesday to all 50 Republicans in the Senate to see whether they would support a pair of House-passed measures to strengthen background checks for gun buyers. Within hours of the elementary school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, Senate Democrats moved quickly to clear the way for possible votes on the two bills.

The legislation would expand criminal background checks to would-be purchasers on the internet and at gun shows and give the F.B.I. more time to investigate gun buyers flagged by the instant background check system.

The vast majority of Republicans have opposed gun safety legislation for years, banding together to block its consideration or refusing to bring it up.

Most Republicans who have responded to The Times so far have either declined to take a position or signaled they would oppose the measures, citing concerns about infringing on the rights of gun owners.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ators.html
You're an idiot. Would such a law have kept a gun out of the hands of the Texas shooter?



bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 12:22 pm

Bryce wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:01 pm
Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:52 am
Why does an 18 year old need an AK47?
Now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Letting the government decide what we "need" and don't need. Lots of that going on in North Korea, China and Venezuela these days.
...and as soon as you go down the road of government deciding what people need and don't need, there is no limit to how far down the slippery slope one can slide as arguments can be made that taking away everything except your food, water, and shelter will somehow save lives. Even in this country, those who support the Nanny State, I think many people would be surprised just how far those power-hungry people are willing to slide down the slope. That is in-part why I defend the NRA. I'm not a member, and if I'm being completely honest, I don't like all of their tactics. That said, if the NRA wasn't so absolutist in its vigorous defense of the 2nd Amendment, the government would take every inch it could take, and then some. Gun control is a slippery slope that inevitably ends with nobody owning any guns whatsoever. So proper defense of the 2nd Amendment REQUIRES a group with an absolutist position to defend it.



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FakeAndyStuart
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by FakeAndyStuart » Thu May 26, 2022 12:38 pm

In The Bleachers wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 7:47 am
Andy:
This article you linked is based on "age adjusted" statistics. I tried to Google that term to see just what that means. But only come up with other charts and graphs derived using the same term.

What does Age Adjusted mean in the context of this link?
Never really seen that term before.
Thanks.
Valid question. In reading the background material from JAMA, it seems that they took the raw data and matched it to population percentages. A standard statistical method to avoid having one age cell warp the entire study.. but I had not seen it labeled "age adjusted" in the past. Nielsen does this with radio diaries and PP Meters.. I think it makes the final data much more reliable and comparable country to country.



Deleted User 15783

Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Deleted User 15783 » Thu May 26, 2022 1:00 pm

I'm going to weigh in.

Like others have said, there's more guns in America than people. More guns than every man, woman and child. Sure if we were a country that nipped gun ownership in the bud before many folks owned one, fine. Limiting sales would be the answer. But that dam has been broke. Trying to limit access now is like trying to limit access to the air we breath.

This is America. With enough jingle in your pocket, any American can get any gun they want, legal or illegal. Regardless of how restrictive it is to get one. Taking away the easy route is just going to make it a little more difficult, but nowhere near impossible. Even if the only people allowed to carry an AK-47 is the US Secret Service, if it's being made, it can be got.

What I personally would like to see is at a press conference, the officials say something like "We are looking into how culpable the family is in allowing access to the firearms". Yeah sure that would be just pissing in the wind talk.
But to me, it seems every shooter has had red flags up beforehand.
Would authorities saying they would like to hold the family and friends that ignored those red flags responsible (example Oxford), prompt more people to not ignore and report red flags in the future?



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TC Talks
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by TC Talks » Thu May 26, 2022 1:02 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:07 pm
TC Talks wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:58 am
Look at this pack of cowards...
The New York Times reached out on Wednesday to all 50 Republicans in the Senate to see whether they would support a pair of House-passed measures to strengthen background checks for gun buyers. Within hours of the elementary school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, Senate Democrats moved quickly to clear the way for possible votes on the two bills.

The legislation would expand criminal background checks to would-be purchasers on the internet and at gun shows and give the F.B.I. more time to investigate gun buyers flagged by the instant background check system.

The vast majority of Republicans have opposed gun safety legislation for years, banding together to block its consideration or refusing to bring it up.

Most Republicans who have responded to The Times so far have either declined to take a position or signaled they would oppose the measures, citing concerns about infringing on the rights of gun owners.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ators.html
You're an idiot. Would such a law have kept a gun out of the hands of the Texas shooter?
That's the best you got? Hundreds of shootings and you try to apply your warped logic to how background checks work. Pray of it.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 1:07 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:02 pm
That's the best you got? Hundreds of shootings and you try to apply your warped logic to how background checks work. Pray of it.
Answer my question. Would the Texas shooter have failed any kind of background check? Simple yes or no question.



bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 1:09 pm

In The Bleachers wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:00 pm
What I personally would like to see is at a press conference, the officials say something like "We are looking into how culpable the family is in allowing access to the firearms". Yeah sure that would be just pissing in the wind talk.
The Texas shooter was a legal adult when he purchased his firearms. Not sure how you can hold the family accountable.
In The Bleachers wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:00 pm
But to me, it seems every shooter has had red flags up beforehand.
Would authorities saying they would like to hold the family and friends that ignored those red flags responsible (example Oxford), prompt more people to not ignore and report red flags in the future?
People SHOULD report red flags. But can you really criminalize not doing so? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think US citizens are compelled by law to report crimes they are witnessing, let alone red-flag precursors to crimes that haven't even happened yet.



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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 26, 2022 1:35 pm

Bryce wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 12:01 pm
Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:52 am
Why does an 18 year old need an AK47?
Now we're getting down to the nitty gritty. Letting the government decide what we "need" and don't need. Lots of that going on in North Korea, China and Venezuela these days.
I didn't ask the government, I posed the question to the board.

Can you tell me why an 18 year old needs an AK47?


The censorship king from out of state.

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Honeyman
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm

bmw says: So unless you have actual empirical data to suggest otherwise, this debate is over, and you lost.

bmw means: Sure 18 4th graders got massacred and 2 teachers died, but damn if I didn't win my argument on mibuzzboard!!! HIGH FIVE!!!!


The censorship king from out of state.

km1125
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by km1125 » Thu May 26, 2022 1:48 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 11:58 am
Look at this pack of cowards...
The New York Times reached out on Wednesday to all 50 Republicans in the Senate to see whether they would support a pair of House-passed measures to strengthen background checks for gun buyers. Within hours of the elementary school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, Senate Democrats moved quickly to clear the way for possible votes on the two bills.

The legislation would expand criminal background checks to would-be purchasers on the internet and at gun shows and give the F.B.I. more time to investigate gun buyers flagged by the instant background check system.

The vast majority of Republicans have opposed gun safety legislation for years, banding together to block its consideration or refusing to bring it up.

Most Republicans who have responded to The Times so far have either declined to take a position or signaled they would oppose the measures, citing concerns about infringing on the rights of gun owners.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ators.html
Those guys are standing up based on the SCIENCE and DATA and you guys are losing your shit about it. NOTHING in those bills would do A THING to prevent the tragedy that just happened, nor likely any one of the other school shootings that have occurred.



Matt
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Matt » Thu May 26, 2022 1:50 pm

I can see minds being changed as we speak!


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

bmw
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Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:02 am

Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 1:57 pm

Honeyman - you are completely missing the mark here. First to your question of "why an 18 year old needs an AK47" - you need to define the word "need." I answered your question. In the context of survival, humans need food, water, and shelter. One could aslo argue a 4th need of the ability to defend themselves against external threats. Now obviously an AK47 could be used for self-defense, but I aknowledge that there are better options for serving that purpose. Put another way - nobody "needs" an AK47 any more than anybody "needs" any laundry list of items that are perfectly legal to own but don't directly contribute to meeting the needs I listed above.

As to your latter comment about winning a debate - look, you can criticize my Covid data analysis to the extent that we have limited data to work with. When it comes to school shootings, however, we have well over a hundred years of data, and the data speaks for itself:

(a) school shootings are uniquely an American problem,
(b) the amount of gun control a state has in place does not act as a predictor for what your risk level is of being the victim of a school shooting, at least between the year 2000 and today, and
(c) we've seen a shap increase in school shooting beginning in or around 2013.

Those are all sound conclusions supported by many decades' worth of data. As such, the conclusion that you personally have reached (that the guns are the problem) is not supported by existing evidence. Now if you want to argue that gun ownership is and its staunch defenders are uniquely an American thing, then fine. But if that's the route you're going to take, you have to come up with a viable solution, and I have yet to see you put one forth. And even then, such a conclusion does not explain the large uptick in school shootings over the past 10 years when guns have been an American thing fo rmuch longer than that, nor does it explain why the gun control that does exist in certain states isn't doing anything to reduce these shootings.



bmw
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by bmw » Thu May 26, 2022 2:05 pm

Matt wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:50 pm
I can see minds being changed as we speak!
You said "Also, making a weapon that can quickly cause mass casualties readily available is a problem. That is also indisputable," to which I partially agreed with, but unless I missed it, you haven't proposed a solution to this problem. Hard to change minds without solutions, and I said I'm all ears. I have yet to be convinced that there even is a solution, and thus far nobody who has said that the guns themselves are part of the problem have moved that needle one bit.



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FakeAndyStuart
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by FakeAndyStuart » Thu May 26, 2022 4:23 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 2:05 pm
"making a weapon that can quickly cause mass casualties readily available is a problem. That is also indisputable," to which I partially agreed with,
So isn't the solution to make them LESS readily available? There, we're done, thanks everybody, have a good weekend.



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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: The gun isn't the problem. Hate is the problem.

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Thu May 26, 2022 4:31 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 1:44 pm
bmw says: So unless you have actual empirical data to suggest otherwise, this debate is over, and you lost.

bmw means: Sure 18 4th graders got massacred and 2 teachers died, but damn if I didn't win my argument on mibuzzboard!!! HIGH FIVE!!!!
LOL. Such a proud moment it must be...



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