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Blood On Their Hands

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
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Bryce
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Bryce » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:46 am

Neckbeard wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:11 am
Bryce wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:17 am
I must disagree. The anti police rhetoric, prohibiting proven policing techniques and the lenient or non existent prosecution of criminals espoused by the far left politicians that run many of our major cities directly contributes to the problem.
The data does not appear to support this position.

I went ahead and looked through police deaths from 2001-2021. The data is broken down by causes, and the causes seem to fit a few different categories: deaths caused by accidents, deaths caused by assailants, and deaths by illness. When you break out deaths caused by assailants from the other types, it appears that there were many years where there were more or the same number of deaths. Even the most frequent form of death, gunfire, has more deaths in other years than 2021. If all these issues you bring up were influencing fatal violence against police, it would seem likely that 2021 would be at the head of the pack, not tied with three other years for fourth place across the past 20 years. That's essentially high end of middle of the pack. The total is even within a standard deviation from the mean. Take a look.

Image
I'm not sure who compiled that chart, but total deaths don't really tell the whole story.

From The FOP:

The number of police officers shot in ambush-style attacks more than doubled in the first seven months of 2021, a report by the National Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) reveals.

Through July, 185 officers have been shot in 2021. Of these, 35 were killed. The 52 ambush-style attacks resulting in officers being shot is an increase of 126% from the first seven months of 2020.

A total of 67 officers were shot, and 17 killed, during this year’s 52 ambush attacks.

Ambush attacks are different from injury and death during the normal course of police work. It shows a level of hate and malice that has been stoked by the anti police leftists.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

Deleted User 9015

Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:23 pm

Bryce wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:46 am
Neckbeard wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:11 am
Bryce wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:17 am
I must disagree. The anti police rhetoric, prohibiting proven policing techniques and the lenient or non existent prosecution of criminals espoused by the far left politicians that run many of our major cities directly contributes to the problem.
The data does not appear to support this position.

I went ahead and looked through police deaths from 2001-2021. The data is broken down by causes, and the causes seem to fit a few different categories: deaths caused by accidents, deaths caused by assailants, and deaths by illness. When you break out deaths caused by assailants from the other types, it appears that there were many years where there were more or the same number of deaths. Even the most frequent form of death, gunfire, has more deaths in other years than 2021. If all these issues you bring up were influencing fatal violence against police, it would seem likely that 2021 would be at the head of the pack, not tied with three other years for fourth place across the past 20 years. That's essentially high end of middle of the pack. The total is even within a standard deviation from the mean. Take a look.

Image
I'm not sure who compiled that chart, but total deaths don't really tell the whole story.
I threw it together using data from the link in this thread. You can check it for accuracy if inclined. Deaths at the hands of attackers tells a pretty H*** chunk of the story, though, and to downplay it would be nonsensical, especially considering the very OP of this thread was concerned with officer deaths.
Bryce wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:46 am
From The FOP:

The number of police officers shot in ambush-style attacks more than doubled in the first seven months of 2021, a report by the National Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) reveals.

Through July, 185 officers have been shot in 2021. Of these, 35 were killed. The 52 ambush-style attacks resulting in officers being shot is an increase of 126% from the first seven months of 2020.

A total of 67 officers were shot, and 17 killed, during this year’s 52 ambush attacks.

Ambush attacks are different from injury and death during the normal course of police work. It shows a level of hate and malice that has been stoked by the anti police leftists.
I'm inclined to consider differences in conditions between January-July of 2020 to January-July of 2021. Wasn't there a lockdown or something going on from mid-March until like August 2020? I remember barely leaving my house and most other people doing the same. Bad comparison.

I wouldn't mind seeing data from the FOP describing the number of "ambush-style" attacks across the past 20 years before drawing conclusions. If there was a correlation between BLM and anti-police leftists with an increase in violence against police, then I would think that there would be a trendline going upward across the past decade as the group gained resources and influence.

So yeah, its shitty, but we can't use every shitty thing that happens as a political football because we're mad that there are people with different opinions and who disagree with us.



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audiophile
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by audiophile » Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:49 pm

How do you compile data for a year that is not over?


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

Deleted User 9015

Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Deleted User 9015 » Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:19 pm

audiophile wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:49 pm
How do you compile data for a year that is not over?
Officer Down Memorial Seems to keep a running tab on deaths. MW posted a link to 2021 on page 1. It seems thorough they even include k9.



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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:35 pm

Neckbeard wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:19 pm
audiophile wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:49 pm
How do you compile data for a year that is not over?
Officer Down Memorial Seems to keep a running tab on deaths. MW posted a link to 2021 on page 1. It seems thorough they even include k9.
Since they include doggies, I'd also be curious if these are strictly 'in the line of duty" fatalities, because at least here in Arizona officers get the full monty honors treatment if they get killed falling off their personal Harley's out in the middle of the desert on their own free time.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by MWmetalhead » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:10 pm

Good data; thanks for posting it. Why am I not at all surprised the F.O.P. was lying about 2021 officer deaths while on duty?

The 2021 figures are significantly higher than normal but certainly not a record high.



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TC Talks
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by TC Talks » Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:53 pm

Police union lie? I'm shocked..


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MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm

Bryce wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:51 am
Heavy Blue Toll: Law enforcement deaths hit record high in 2021
More police officers have died in 2021 than any other year in U.S. history, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. The latest occurred Thursday when a Baltimore officer was ambushed and died.

In 2021, estimates range from 358 to 477 officers killed in the line of duty. Both numbers are still significantly higher than previous years.
The anti police rhetoric set forth by BLM and the leftist politicians that support them, along with the defund the police movement and no arrest policies are directly responsible for these numbers. Is anyone going to hold their feet to the fire?
To a large extent, they bring it on themselves. They refuse to turn in their corrupt co workers. They have to build back trust with all communities.


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Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 pm

MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
Bryce wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:51 am
Heavy Blue Toll: Law enforcement deaths hit record high in 2021
More police officers have died in 2021 than any other year in U.S. history, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. The latest occurred Thursday when a Baltimore officer was ambushed and died.

In 2021, estimates range from 358 to 477 officers killed in the line of duty. Both numbers are still significantly higher than previous years.
The anti police rhetoric set forth by BLM and the leftist politicians that support them, along with the defund the police movement and no arrest policies are directly responsible for these numbers. Is anyone going to hold their feet to the fire?
To a large extent, they bring it on themselves. They refuse to turn in their corrupt co workers. They have to build back trust with all communities.
I think that's an extraordinarily good point you bring up. I was in Portland during the civil unrest when I first saw the letters ACAB scrawled across the side of a building and thought to myself "All? That seems a bit harsh" but I also witnessed actions by law enforcement that had the participant not been an officer the action most certainly would have prompted an immediate arrest. The cherry on the cake was when not one, not two, but three cops looked on while George Floyd's life was being extinguished. They turned a blind eye. Explain that. Explain that.

Personally, I'd be happy to exchange ACAB for S(ome)CAB but I'm not in a position to effect that change and those who are in a position to do so seem unwilling. So here we are.



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Bryce
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Bryce » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:48 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:10 pm
Good data; thanks for posting it. Why am I not at all surprised the F.O.P. was lying about 2021 officer deaths while on duty?

The 2021 figures are significantly higher than normal but certainly not a record high.
Um, I guess I missed the part where the FOP lied? Could be I'm dense, but the numbers in the story I quoted was information from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund which is a 501c3. The numbers from ambush attacks was from the FOP. I don't believe those numbers are incorrect.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Bryce
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by Bryce » Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:52 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 pm
The cherry on the cake was when not one, not two, but three cops looked on while George Floyd's life was being extinguished. They turned a blind eye. Explain that. Explain that.
Nothing to explain. It was wrong. Terribly so.

Now, the next time three Black individuals are involved where a person dies, should people spray paint ABPAB on buildings?


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:42 am

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 pm
MotorCityRadioFreak wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
Bryce wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 11:51 am
Heavy Blue Toll: Law enforcement deaths hit record high in 2021
More police officers have died in 2021 than any other year in U.S. history, according to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund. The latest occurred Thursday when a Baltimore officer was ambushed and died.

In 2021, estimates range from 358 to 477 officers killed in the line of duty. Both numbers are still significantly higher than previous years.
The anti police rhetoric set forth by BLM and the leftist politicians that support them, along with the defund the police movement and no arrest policies are directly responsible for these numbers. Is anyone going to hold their feet to the fire?
To a large extent, they bring it on themselves. They refuse to turn in their corrupt co workers. They have to build back trust with all communities.
I think that's an extraordinarily good point you bring up. I was in Portland during the civil unrest when I first saw the letters ACAB scrawled across the side of a building and thought to myself "All? That seems a bit harsh" but I also witnessed actions by law enforcement that had the participant not been an officer the action most certainly would have prompted an immediate arrest. The cherry on the cake was when not one, not two, but three cops looked on while George Floyd's life was being extinguished. They turned a blind eye. Explain that. Explain that.

Personally, I'd be happy to exchange ACAB for S(ome)CAB but I'm not in a position to effect that change and those who are in a position to do so seem unwilling. So here we are.
I say MCAB(most cops are bastards). I am not going to condemn an entire profession whose basic existence was created to serve and protect. Somehow, over a period of 250+ years, our country has moved away from that. And technically, by the letter of the law, they are no longer required to serve and protect.

Quite honestly, if I was of better health and policing was a more honorable occupation, I would join them. The police departments need to get back to the goal of protecting the vulnerable, especially marginalized communities.


They/them, non-binary and proud.

Remember that “2000 Mules” was concocted by a circus of elephants.
The right needs to stop worry about what’s between people’s legs. Instead, they should focus on what’s between their ears.
Audacity sucks.

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TC Talks
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by TC Talks » Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:09 am

Bryce wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:52 pm
Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 pm
The cherry on the cake was when not one, not two, but three cops looked on while George Floyd's life was being extinguished. They turned a blind eye. Explain that. Explain that.
Nothing to explain. It was wrong. Terribly so.

Now, the next time three Black individuals are involved where a person dies, should people spray paint ABPAB on buildings?
So letters on a building our justification to kill citizens? This is what you seem to be saying in defense of their abhorrent behavior.

Here's another example yesterday.... 14 year old kid gunned down for no reason.
Body camera and surveillance footage shows a man attacking holiday shoppers before police officers opened fire, killing him and a 14-year-old girl who was in a dressing room.


“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”
― Noam Chomsky

Posting Content © 2024 TC Talks Holdings LP.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:24 am

Bryce, the remarks you quoted from the National F.O.P. in the second post you made to this thread were lies.

To recap, those remarks were as follows:
The National Fraternal Order of Police, the world's largest organization of law enforcement officers, on Wednesday reported a record number of police officers shot and killed in 2021.

As of Tuesday midnight, the FOP recorded 314 officers shot in the line of duty — 58 of whom were killed.

"We are on pace this year to see the highest number of officers shot in the line of duty in one year ever recorded," FOP president Patrick Yoes said in a Wednesday statement.
The number of officers shot and killed in the line of duty did not reach record levels in 2021. Higher than normal levels? Absolutely. Record levels? Nope. The stats posted earlier going back to year 2000 prove that.

Our country would be much better off if the FOP were disbanded. Spewing bullshit as the FOP does is not effective at improving public sentiment regarding policing. If anything, that organization's routine defense of bad eggs - or refusal to condemn corrupt individuals within the profession - spawns resentment against policing.



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audiophile
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Re: Blood On Their Hands

Post by audiophile » Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:30 am

Why are we comparing 2021 stats to other years when the year isn't even over?


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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