Vaccine Not So Effective?

[Bryce]

Right now I feel as good as I look.

Gee, I'm sorry. Get better soon.

[TC Talks]

I wonder how many posters here have just disappeared never to return in the name of choice.

I predict that proof of covid vaccine is going to be a popular policy in Corporate America. They don't give a fuck about your GED science.

[zzand]

The list of corporations requiring the jabs is growing daily with Walmart and Kroger being the latest to join the club. I also saw a quote from the President that he is looking into the legality of a nationwide vaccine mandate. I looked, my newsroom looked, but we couldn't find the context of that quote. I personally think that would be a bad idea since everyone should be allowed to choose. But in the thread I started on businesses stepping up it seems that is happening rather quickly. People who choose not to get jabbed will be able to find businesses to use that don't have mandates in place.

[Bryce]

The list of corporations requiring the jabs is growing daily with Walmart and Kroger being the latest to join the club.

FWIW...

The Walmart mandate applies, at this point, only to employees working at it's corporate headquarters.

[MWmetalhead]

But just go get your jab anyways. Don't ask questions. Just do what you're told. Be a good little citizen.

Seriously, 9 out of 10 new cases in Israel in people over the age of 50 are in fully vaccinated people? Only 59% of Israel's population is fully vaccinated, so I can't imagine that the number is much higher than 70 or 75% for people over the age of 50. And if 60% of patients in serious condition are fully vaccinated and 59% of the total population is fully vaccinated, then what good is the vaccine? Just like the recent Massachusetts example, there's literally no correlation whatsoever between vaccination and hospitalization or vaccination and infection rates.

How does being vaccinated INCREASE severity of symptoms? How is there any downside?

What is very noteworthy is that the current vaccines appear to have questionable effectiveness against Delta.

If that is indeed true, it is not terribly surprising that vaccinated people are as likely to wind up with serious cases as non-vaccinated folks, especially considering vaccinated people are probably more likely to "resume life as normal" and not be as cautious.

The trends in MA and in Israel are certainly highly concerning as far as Delta is concerned. Of course, there are other mutations still out there (and to come) where the vaccine has been or (could in the future be) highly effective.

What this tells me is the vaccine "recipe," much like the influenza vaccine, will need to be updated regularly and that at least annual vaccination will probably become commonplace.

[MWmetalhead]

Headline (from article published July 23):
Pfizer Covid-19 Vaccine Is Less Effective Against Delta Infections but Still Prevents Serious Illness, Israel Study Suggests

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pfizer-cov ... N#cxrecs_s

I repeat my earlier question: what, exactly, is the downside of getting the vaccine?

[Bryce]

How is there any downside?

https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world ... ccine.html

I'd embed the video, but I just haven't figured out how to do so from Rumble yet. In any case, a small excerpt....

Dr. Peter McCullough – Texas A&M College of Medicine

“If you create a very narrow library of immunity – and that’s what all the current vaccines do. The current vaccines are targeted at the original Wuhan virus spike protein which is long gone, that’s extinct — you are vaccinating patients to something that doesn’t exist any more.

We’re hoping that this immunity will apply to other variants, but narrow immunity is a setup. It’s just like giving everybody A NARROW-SPECTRUM ANTIBIOTIC.

If you gave that, what would happen? We’d grow up SUPER BUGS!

There are warnings out there saying ‘DON’T DO THIS!’ Don’t vaccinate the entire world. All we’re going to do is set ourselves up for a super bug that’s REALLY going to wipe out populations.

Indiscriminate vaccination is a horrendous idea. It’s a horrendous bioweapon.”

Numbers I've found show that around 4,000 Americans have died on day one, two or three after receiving the vaccine and around 10,000 people in Europe. There are at least two therapeutics that HAVE been long approved for use by the FDA that successfully treat symptoms of Covid-19. Why aren't we treating new patients with those rather than wholesale vaccinations?

[MWmetalhead]

It takes up to two weeks for the vaccine to become protective. There is no causal analysis to suggest those 4,000 deaths were directly connected to the vaccine.

It certainly makes sense that the vaccine will need to be reshaped over time. I question the analogy he used, however.

A lot of folks aren't crazy about the guy you quoted, including that wacky left-wing Baylor University (sarcasm).

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public- ... -its-name/

He doesn't seem to have a great command of facts, either:

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/vacci ... ews-guest/

It's worth noting, that in at least one interview, even *he* acknowledges the Pfizer vaccine is 60% to 70% effective in controlling symptoms of Delta.

[MWmetalhead]

From the CNBC Story regarding Barnstable County, MA:

Overall, 274 vaccinated patients with a breakthrough infection were symptomatic, according to the CDC. The most common side effects were cough, headache, sore throat, muscle pain and fever. Among five Covid patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated, according to the agency. No deaths were reported.

Testing identified the delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients.

While numerous studies have shown that the vaccines don’t work as well against the delta variant as they did against other strains, health officials say they are still highly effective, especially in protecting against severe illness and death. Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals, U.S. health officials repeated this week.

So, out of the 274 breakthrough cases, only 4 (1.5%) required hospitalization.

While I'd prefer that number to be at zero, I'd say that's still not a bad result. Extremely overwhelming majority of deaths in the U.S. are among the unvaccinated.

[Bryce]

It's worth noting, that in at least one interview, even *he* acknowledges the Pfizer vaccine is 60% to 70% effective in controlling symptoms of Delta.

I would counter with the fact that there are two therapeutics available that are just as effective, if not more, in controlling symptoms that HAVE been approved by the FDA for years.

Here's the gorilla in the room. At least my room. If having everyone vaccinated is so damn important, why is the federal government allowing hundreds or thousands of un-vaccinated, potentially Covid positive, illegals stream across our border day in and day out without being checked?

[Bryce]

So, out of the 274 breakthrough cases, only 4 (1.5%) required hospitalization.

At the height of the pandemic, around 4.5% of Covid cases required hospitalization. The vast majority of which were elderly and people with underlying health issues.

[MWmetalhead]

I'd say a two-thirds reduction ain't bad.

Certainly, those with underlying health issues are at much greater risk.

Here's the gorilla in the room. At least my room. If having everyone vaccinated is so damn important, why is the federal government allowing hundreds or thousands of un-vaccinated, potentially Covid positive, illegals stream across our border day in and day out without being checked?

I'm not sure if "allowing" is an accurate term (more folks are definitely attempting to cross), but certainly penetration of illegal immigrants into our nation is a significant issue. No argument here.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/16 ... -how-many/

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -s-economy

[craig11152]

I'm not going to convince a non-vaccer to get vaccinated but I will point out statistics can be deceiving or only show a small part of a big picture.
So here I go.....
In the United States....
The biggest demographic of hospitalized Covied patients are the unvaccinated.
The 18-49 demographic are more likely to be hospitalized than 50-64 or 65 and up. they are also less likely to be vaccinated
The 65 and up demographic was the most likely pre-vaccination to be hospitalized and now they have dropped significantly as they are by far the most vaccinated demographic.

So you can certainly say "I like my chances without an vaccine" and you would be right.
But you can't say the vaccines don't really work because that is not remotely accurate.

[bmw]

From the CNBC Story regarding Barnstable County, MA:

Overall, 274 vaccinated patients with a breakthrough infection were symptomatic, according to the CDC. The most common side effects were cough, headache, sore throat, muscle pain and fever. Among five Covid patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated, according to the agency. No deaths were reported.

Testing identified the delta variant in 90% of specimens from 133 patients.

While numerous studies have shown that the vaccines don’t work as well against the delta variant as they did against other strains, health officials say they are still highly effective, especially in protecting against severe illness and death. Roughly 97% of new hospitalizations and 99.5% of deaths in the U.S. are among unvaccinated individuals, U.S. health officials repeated this week.

So, out of the 274 breakthrough cases, only 4 (1.5%) required hospitalization.

While I'd prefer that number to be at zero, I'd say that's still not a bad result. Extremely overwhelming majority of deaths in the U.S. are among the unvaccinated.

You pretty much glossed over the fact that in that MA outbreak, 122 people who got sick were not vaccinated (or only had 1 dose) and only 1 of those people wound up in this hospital. Point being, at least in this particular sample of 469 cases, the unvaccinated people were no worse off than the vaccinated people, both in terms of infection rate and hospitalization rate. And again, while I concede that this is too small of a sample to really reach any conclusions from, this data set is well beyond acceptable standard deviations from these other numbers we keep hearing nationally (ie, the 97% of new hospitalizations being unvaccinated), raising questions as to what exactly is going on. We either have an extremely unusual statistical anomaly here, or something else is going on. If it is something else, I'd like to know what that something else is. If it is the high percentage of Delta cases in this sample, then considering that Delta is now the dominant variant in the US, while I don't yet buy the argument that the vaccine will somehow lead to a "super bug" (namely because all the vaccinated people who are getting the Delta variant are then themselves developing natural immunity against Delta), I would suggest that the risk vs. reward concept of getting vaccinated leans more towards not getting vaccinated for certain groups of people if the efficacy rate against the dominant strain is significantly lower.

[TC Talks]

If you like data, take a look at vaccination rates vs Hot spots in this data. It leaves little doubt that vaccinated areas have less virus. Why are you wasting your time trying "find" the real truth?

It's simple, the vaccine works and if you don't get it you will like get covid.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... cases.html