To any idiot who still refuses to get vaccinated....

[bmw]

What you're both ignoring is where NATURAL immunity plays into the equation. I'm not going to re-cite the studies (I've posted links in here in the past), but most experts agree that upwards of 50% of the entire US population already had Covid as of April. We're into the July. I would suggest that conservatively speaking, 55% of the US population has had Covid. Studies ALSO show that natural immunity lasts at least 8 months (possibly a lot longer, we don't know yet) and has very near the efficacy as the vaccine does - anywhere from 55 to 80 percent depending the age group and study, and the Cleveland clinic study which Posted here just a few days ago (which sadly none of you had any response to) showed literally 100% efficacy over a 6-month period out of a group of 1200 healthcare employees.

So the unvaccinated people who are contracting Covid now (I don't care what variant) are developing natural immunity that is nearly as good as the immunity they would get if they were vaccinated, and generally speaking, they're mostly only making other unvaccinated people sick.

Translation - we're in the final phase of reaching herd immunity. 55% has natural immunity, 56% has vaccinated immunity, and assuming roughly equal cross-over of those 2 groups, we're now at 80% of the population having immunity. Recent studies I've been reading suggest that to reach true herd immunity, the threshold is somewhere between 85% and 90% immunity. That means that we only need 5 to 10% more of the population to either get vaccinated or get sick. So I'm PERFECTLY FINE with the highly transmissible Delta variant going through that last 20% of the population that has neither type of immunity. Why? Because honestly, that is probably going to happen faster than is getting the same number of people to voluntarily get vaccinated. I don't think it makes any sense right now to try to slow that spread down. If we do, and if vaccine hesitancy continues (which it will), we're only prolonging the time needed to end this pandemic.

[Robert Faygo]

BMW, while I am not gonna get the pie charts or whatever for you, the stats are showing nationwide those who are getting the Delta Variant are by a large margin are those who are not getting the jabs. Every source, left, right, middle says that. You can choose to believe it or not, I will choose to. I went to my local Walmart today and all employees were masked again and they were handing out paper masks to everyone who went in and everyone who I saw was masked. Sadly the masks are coming back.

Yep. And there is scientific evidence that had more just sucked it up and gotten their shots when they became much more widely available in May, this backslide would have been much less of a concern. We all lose thanks to the incredible sense of selfishness that is our society.

[Robert Faygo]

So the unvaccinated people who are contracting Covid now (I don't care what variant) are developing natural immunity that is nearly as good as the immunity they would get if they were vaccinated, and generally speaking, they're mostly only making other unvaccinated people sick. We're only prolonging the time needed to end this pandemic.

Unfortunately, this next peak is going to be bad enough that everyone will be paying the price in more loss of freedoms while we wait your premise out. So frustrating that a perfectly good solution was/is out there to prevent that -- and ignored by so many.

[Honeyman]

So the unvaccinated people who are contracting Covid now (I don't care what variant) are developing natural immunity that is nearly as good as the immunity they would get if they were vaccinated, and generally speaking, they're mostly only making other unvaccinated people sick. We're only prolonging the time needed to end this pandemic.

Unfortunately, this next peak is going to be bad enough that everyone will be paying the price in more loss of freedoms while we wait your premise out. So frustrating that a perfectly good solution was/is out there to prevent that -- and ignored by so many.

Bang. Well said, RF.

[bmw]

You know one place where cases aren't going up? Sweden. You know why? Because they've likely already reached herd immunity. You know why? Because they're the only country on earth where the government largely let the virus run its course.

Interestingly enough, cases aren't really spiking in Michigan either - they're up somewhat, but not as much as in a lot of other states - and I suspect for the same reason, even in spite of Whitmer's efforts otherwise.

[bmw]

btw - if the next peak is anywhere near what the one this past winter was like, then that means that we're either headed for near 100% immunity, or the vaccine isn't working as well as we had hoped. Again - there's only about 25% of the population left to infect - the 20 percent that have no immunity and another 5% that are susceptible to re-infection.

[Robert Faygo]

Valid points.

None of them make a damn bit of difference to the people that make the decisions on COVID restrictions.

Banging on the temple of righteousness is great, but useless.

Getting vaccinated puts the power in your own hands instead of relying on others to agree with the stuff you've typed above -- no matter how correct / accurate it is.

[Matt]

For the record, Whitmer said mask mandates aren't coming back when she announced the failed lottery.

[Turkeytop]

Now it turns out the vaccine can magnetize our body.

That's all I need is lumps of loose metal flying up and sticking to my head.

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... y-magnetic

[Motown322]

You know one place where cases aren't going up? Sweden. You know why? Because they've likely already reached herd immunity. You know why? Because they're the only country on earth where the government largely let the virus run its course.

Well, if you like Sweden so much, why don't you just move there?

[zzand]

Matt, our Governor has said the same thing but said businesses can make their own decisions. In our buildings those who are among the vaccinated don't need masks, no shots you wear a mask. In our whole company there are only 2 people who are not vaccinated. Both, interestingly enough are Democrats but they are under 30 too.

[bmw]

None of them make a damn bit of difference to the people that make the decisions on COVID restrictions. Banging on the temple of righteousness is great, but useless.

I believe this is because the people making these decisions (and I'm talking in states/cities where the stricter restrictions have been in place) are stuck having to continue selling the big lie that they have been selling since day 1 - that the government has the power to slow down the spread and to save lives. They continue selling this lie because to admit they got it wrong from the start would potentially have devastating political consequences. So they keep doubling down on stupid, over and over and over again. I think a lot of them really do know that their lockdowns and various other restrictions haven't done a damn thing to save lives or slow down the spread (and I think the numbers bear out my hypothesis). I think there's also a component of these people just plain enjoying exerting control over others.

Getting vaccinated puts the power in your own hands instead of relying on others to agree with the stuff you've typed above -- no matter how correct / accurate it is.

If I haven't been clear on this point - I have nothing against getting vaccinated. I have, however, concluded that people in general suck at doing their own personal risk-benefit analysis (and this is in large part because of how ridiculously one-sided the media and government's promotion of the vaccine has been). My conclusion after reading numerous studies is that most people who have been previously infected (ie, about half of the population) do not benefit from getting vaccinated, at least not this year anyways. Of the other half of the population, I think the potential risks outweigh the reward for most people under the age of 30, and for a lot of healthy people under the age of 45. At the end of the day, I'd say there's probably 20 percent of the population that benefits significantly from getting vaccinated - and if all the people who didn't need to get vaccinated chose to instead pass, we could be sending our vaccines to other parts of the world that could desperately use them. Instead we have a propaganda machine composed of numerous entities relentlessly pushing the vaccine onto people that don't need it and/or don't want it.

[TC Shuts Up]

You all ought to read the data coming out from overseas about the jab dangers before you are so judgmental. You don't have the political polarization overseas because they are all just one form or another of slightly watered down Communism. So you Leftists should trust THEM if they say it's bad. Latest reports from Israel are that it appears that Pfizer is of no use for the latest "variant". And that "boosters" are causing horrible reactions. Not that the alphabet networks that don't spell anything will allow it to be reported.

[zzand]

Las Vegas has put their mask mandate back in place for indoors as well.

[Bryce]

It is my understanding that the various vaccines do not completely prevent a person from contracting the virus, but, greatly reduce the severity of the effects of the virus should you contract it. If a vaccinated person can contract the virus, as has been shown to happen in many instances, one would presume they could also spread it.

Why exactly is a person that chooses not to become vaccinated a bigger threat to public health than those that are?

Am I to assume that 61,000 deaths (people that died from the flu during the 2017/2018 flu season) is an acceptable number? No one was talking about forced vaccination for the flu at that time or vilifying the people that choose not to get a flu vaccine.

I have never gotten the flu shot. I have not had a case of the flu in over 25-years. Oddly enough that is around the time I started researching and practicing holistic health. The body and it's immune system is an amazing machine if you give it the proper tools and nutrients. My wife and I both practice holistic health. Three other individuals (22 to 25) who live under our roof, who do not participate in my holistic health program, contracted Covid. They quarantined under our roof and recovered. Although those three individuals are much younger and in a low risk category, THEY contracted Covid-19 and were nursed back to health by my wife and me, WE did not contract the virus.

Should the government insist on everyone eating the foods we eat, taking the supplements and extracts we take, exercising as we do, sleeping the number of hours we do each day and exposing their body to sunlight an hour a day? Have neighbors and family members spy on folks to make sure they're doing so? Report them to the health police if they aren't? Maybe they could give stuff away to coerce people into doing so? Publicly vilify the people that refuse to do so?