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Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

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Honeyman
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Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 06, 2021 3:31 pm

The action has alarmed authoritarian experts who point to parallels in the old Soviet Union as well as in Nazi Germany.

WASHINGTON ― Four months after inciting a violent attack on the Capitol in a last-ditch attempt to retain power, former President Donald Trump on Wednesday demonstrated his continued grip on his party, as House GOP officials prepared to purge Wyoming’s Liz Cheney from her leadership role for criticizing him.

The move, the latest assault on one of the few elected Republicans to publicly argue that Trump’s actions in the weeks leading up to and on Jan. 6 should ban him from public life, alarmed authoritarian experts who pointed out disturbing historical parallels.

Tom Nichols, a scholar of the old Soviet Union and a professor at the U.S. Naval War College, said the situation has a familiar ring. “The whole atmosphere is one of loyalty to the leader and to the party, and none to principle or policy,” he said.

And Jonathan Weiler, a University of North Carolina authoritarianism expert, found parallels going back to Nazi Germany. “It’s interesting that Cheney is condemning Trump specifically for his use of the term ‘the Big Lie’ to push his false claim that the 2020 election was stolen,” he said. “The ‘Big Lie’ itself is a term often attributed to chief Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels ― the idea being that if you push relentlessly and totally a falsehood you can get ordinary people to believe it.”

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) in recent days both signaled their desire to push out Cheney as House Republican Conference chair and a readiness to replace her with Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.), who has repeatedly spread Trump’s lies about the election.

Trump himself followed up with press releases Wednesday attacking Cheney, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and his own former vice president, Mike Pence, for failing to go along with his false claims that he had won the election but that it was stolen from him.

“Had Mike Pence referred the information on six states (only need two) back to State Legislatures, and had gutless and clueless MINORITY Leader Mitch McConnell (he blew two seats in Georgia that should have never been lost) fought to expose all of the corruption that was presented at the time, with more found since, we would have had a far different Presidential result,” Trump said in a statement that was simultaneously posted to his new blog.

“The idea that something as preposterous as the stolen election claim would itself become a loyalty test for mainstream GOPers is disturbingly reminiscent of the ways fascism demanded fealty to its cause,” Weiler said.

Cheney has been among the two dozen or so congressional Republicans who have refused to go along with Trump’s election lies, and among the 17 who voted to impeach or convict him for inciting the Jan. 6 attack on the election certification.

Cheney spokesman Jeremy Adler said the lawmaker is not backing down. “This is about whether the Republican Party is going to perpetuate lies about the 2020 election and attempt to whitewash what happened on Jan 6. Liz will not do that. That is the issue,” he said.

As to the likely attempt to vote her out of her No. 3 position at next week’s House Republican Conference meeting, Adler said Cheney is not yet commenting. “Liz will have more to say in the coming days. This moment is about much more than a House leadership fight,” he said.

Trump spent months before the election telling his followers that the only way he could possibly lose reelection was if Democrats cheated. Trump lost the Nov. 3 election by 7 million votes, but his lies that he had actually won in “a landslide” began in the wee hours of Nov. 4 and continued through dozens of failed lawsuits to overturn his losses in various states, through the Electoral College vote on Dec. 14, and then right into Jan. 6, when he repeated them during a rally he staged near the White House.

There, he encouraged the thousands in attendance to march to the Capitol to intimidate Pence and Congress into reversing his 306-232 Electoral College loss and let him retain power, and then watched from the White House as hundreds of them stormed the building. After Trump tweeted that Pence had “lacked the courage” to overturn his loss, many in his mob began chanting “hang Mike Pence” as they searched for him.

Seven people, including three police officers, died that afternoon and in the following days, two by suicide.

While at first a host of Republicans, including McCarthy, blamed Trump for inciting the attack and failing to stop it once it began, most have since backed away from any criticism, and Trump has renewed his lying about the election ― lying that House Republican leadership appears to have made the official caucus policy.

Neither McCarthy’s nor Stefanik’s office responded to HuffPost queries Wednesday.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a history professor at New York University and fascism expert, said their fealty to Trump is more proof of where the party is headed. “The move to purge Liz Cheney is another example of the authoritarian-style party discipline adopted by Trump’s GOP. It is more evidence that the GOP has become a far-right party beholden to a leader cult,” she said.

The only saving grace, said Nichols, is Trump’s lack of competence, even at being an effective authoritarian. “The Soviets banished people from the party, or worse, for disloyalty,” he said. “The best the GOP can do is run a primary election against Cheney while an old crank in Florida issues angry memos that no one is going to read.”

S.V. Date
Senior White House Correspondent, HuffPost


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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by bmw » Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm

Gotta be honest - I quit reading your post once I hit the word "Nazi" in the first sentence. :roll:



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm
Gotta be honest - I quit reading your post once I hit the word "Nazi" in the first sentence. :roll:
Fair enough. Below was the context:

And Jonathan Weiler, a University of North Carolina authoritarianism expert, found parallels going back to Nazi Germany. “It’s interesting that Cheney is condemning Trump specifically for his use of the term ‘the Big Lie’ to push his false claim that the 2020 election was stolen,” he said. “The ‘Big Lie’ itself is a term often attributed to chief Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels ― the idea being that if you push relentlessly and totally a falsehood you can get ordinary people to believe it.”

Not sure what is untrue about any of those words.


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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Rate This » Thu May 06, 2021 5:33 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:39 pm
bmw wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm
Gotta be honest - I quit reading your post once I hit the word "Nazi" in the first sentence. :roll:
Fair enough. Below was the context:

And Jonathan Weiler, a University of North Carolina authoritarianism expert, found parallels going back to Nazi Germany. “It’s interesting that Cheney is condemning Trump specifically for his use of the term ‘the Big Lie’ to push his false claim that the 2020 election was stolen,” he said. “The ‘Big Lie’ itself is a term often attributed to chief Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels ― the idea being that if you push relentlessly and totally a falsehood you can get ordinary people to believe it.”

Not sure what is untrue about any of those words.
That’s basically the strategy of the Republican Party right now... repeat the lie often enough that people come to believe it. That was their strategy throughout his administration as well.



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Deleted User 14896 » Thu May 06, 2021 5:50 pm

bmw wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:30 pm
Gotta be honest - I quit reading your post once I hit the word "Nazi" in the first sentence. :roll:
I probably didn't make it that fair. The "War and Peace" posts generally lose me after about the fifth paragraph. This is social media.

For as long as the original post was, I'm thinking a link to whatever Honeyman posted would of been more courteous.



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by bmw » Thu May 06, 2021 6:07 pm

I went ahead and read everything posted.

My first problem is that it accuses Trump EIGHT times of lying about the election results. The thing with lying is, lying is intentional - telling a falsehood with the intent of deceiving others. I think Trump genuinely believes that he won the election; hence, he is not lying.

My second problem is that this article falsely states as a matter of fact that Trump incited the unlawful acts of January 6. THAT is the "big lie" as Trump did no such thing. The dictionary definition of incitement is "the action of provoking unlawful behavior or urging someone to behave unlawfully." I have yet to see any evidence that Trump either explicitly urged others to act unlawfully or provoked them into doing so. He certainly could have and should have been much more forceful in condemning it while it was happening, you will get no argument from me there, but he didn't incite it.

As to the parallels to Nazi Germany - hey, if you can show me the 6 million people Trump ordered to be killed, then I might pay attention to the analogy.



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 06, 2021 7:11 pm

And therein lies the rub, bmw.....I, and many others, do not believe Trump at all when he says he thinks the election was rigged. He's an abject liar. If you believe him, now, there is nothing I could say to change your mind. I respect your opinion, but completely disagree.

The Nazi Germany reference was more directed to the propaganda he has constantly repeated, and the fact that nobody dare speak against him. The comment, “The whole atmosphere is one of loyalty to the leader and to the party, and none to principle or policy,” fits it to tee. That's the ONLY reason why a true dedicated conservative like Cheney will lose her position next week.


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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Bryce » Thu May 06, 2021 8:30 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:11 pm
And therein lies the rub, bmw.....I, and many others, do not believe Trump at all when he says he thinks the election was rigged. He's an abject liar.
My goodness! A President that is a liar...
“There is no spying on Americans.”

“We flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a Glock than get his hands on a computer or even a book.”

“If you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep your doctor; if you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan.”

"I will have the most transparent administration."

"I have shovel ready jobs."

"The IRS is not targeting anyone."

"Premiums will be lowered by $2500"

"Benghazi was because of a youtube video."

"I will close Gitmo."

"I will bring ALL of our troops home within ONE year."
Shall I go on?????

Frankly, there are a whole lot more similarities to Nazi Germany in current far left policy than Trump could have ever dreamed of.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Honeyman » Thu May 06, 2021 8:50 pm

There's lies and there are LIES, Bryce.

Only one president lied to the American people about how deadly a pandemic could be when he knew the truth. 1/2 million+ Americans died.

Only one president continues to rip up the very fiber of democracy by claiming an election is rigged, when he know it wasn't.

Windmills cause cancer...Mexico will pay for the wall....my inauguration was bigger than Obamas...this hurricane is in Mississippi, just let me get a sharpie.....

I know you believe and respect the guy. Hes a pile of shit.


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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Bryce » Thu May 06, 2021 9:05 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:50 pm


Only one president continues to rip up the very fiber of democracy by claiming an election is rigged, when he know it wasn't.
Well, I guess it all depends on how you define rigged. You know, sort of like what the definition of is, is.

Are changing rules weeks before the election a rigging?

As far as I'm concerned, the rigging of future elections by the Democrat Party is continuing as I type. I promise you that if the majority of illegals that are being let into this country at the moment were going to be future Republican voters, there would be a wall built so fast your head would spin.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Honeyman » Fri May 07, 2021 9:11 am

Simple question for Bryce, bmw, Mike, or anyone else who wants to answer:

Do you think Liz Cheney should be removed from her position?


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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Bryce » Fri May 07, 2021 9:57 am

Nope, I can't support that at this time.

Then again, I don't think Mike Flynn should have been removed from his position either.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Rate This » Fri May 07, 2021 10:01 am

Honeyman wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:11 am
Simple question for Bryce, bmw, Mike, or anyone else who wants to answer:

Do you think Liz Cheney should be removed from her position?
No. But she’s a goner anyways.



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by Rate This » Fri May 07, 2021 10:03 am

Bryce wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:05 pm
Honeyman wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 8:50 pm


Only one president continues to rip up the very fiber of democracy by claiming an election is rigged, when he know it wasn't.
Well, I guess it all depends on how you define rigged. You know, sort of like what the definition of is, is.

Are changing rules weeks before the election a rigging?

As far as I'm concerned, the rigging of future elections by the Democrat Party is continuing as I type. I promise you that if the majority of illegals that are being let into this country at the moment were going to be future Republican voters, there would be a wall built so fast your head would spin.
The idea that Hispanics are all going to be democrats isn’t really playing out. Neither is the idea that absentee voting somehow benefitted Democrats disproportionately... the net effect of the mail in balloting was a wash. There was no marked uptick in turnout among Democrats that gave them an advantage. It simply moved from in person to absentee.



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Re: Trump Proves His Hold Over GOP Again As House Leaders Prepare To Purge Liz Cheney

Post by zzand » Fri May 07, 2021 10:12 am

As the token Jew here I get really tired of all the comparisons to Nazi Germany. Not one President or party accused of Nazi tactics has ever really come close to Nazi tactics. We have not exterminated 6 million people because of who they were. It needs to stop once and for all.



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