Acceptable registrations in the queue through March 16 at 11:00a ET have now been activated. Enjoy! -M.W.

Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619

Global Tax Rate

Debate and discussion of current events and political issues across the U.S. and throughout the World. Be forewarned -- this forum is NOT for the intellectually weak or those of you with thin skins. Don't come crying to me if you become the subject of ridicule. **Board Administrator reserves the right to revoke posting privileges based on my sole discretion**
zzand
Posts: 1709
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:16 am
Location: right here

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by zzand » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:24 am

It is not the governments job in any way, shape or form to provide for us from cradle to grave. That is the very essence of the nanny state and is not what this country has always stood for. You want to make a better life for yourself, then go out and do so, through a trade school or whatever but don't expect the government to wipe your ass and pay the way for you. If you, and not you personally, want to better yourself, take the responsibility and do it but don't expect anyone else to do it for you. The minimum wage argument gets old after a while give it up already. I know of no one, including kids in fast food, who make minimum wage, most jobs start at 10 bucks an hour so give that tired old nugget a fucking rest



User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Rate This » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:26 am

zzand wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:24 am
It is not the governments job in any way, shape or form to provide for us from cradle to grave. That is the very essence of the nanny state and is not what this country has always stood for. You want to make a better life for yourself, then go out and do so, through a trade school or whatever but don't expect the government to wipe your ass and pay the way for you. If you, and not you personally, want to better yourself, take the responsibility and do it but don't expect anyone else to do it for you. The minimum wage argument gets old after a while give it up already. I know of no one, including kids in fast food, who make minimum wage, most jobs start at 10 bucks an hour so give that tired old nugget a fucking rest
Ok so I’m 50... lost my job making $20 an hour and have to settle for one making $10 an hour while still having to pay the NECESSARY bills. How do I pay for it and.... GO!



User avatar
Big Al
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:55 am

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Big Al » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:40 am

HVAC, roofing, plumbing, they all pay good and don't take long to learn how to do. There are even loans available for it.



User avatar
Robert Faygo
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:26 pm
Location: Van Down By The River
Contact:

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Robert Faygo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:43 am

Rate This wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:26 am
Ok so I’m 50... lost my job making $20 an hour and have to settle for one making $10 an hour while still having to pay the NECESSARY bills. How do I pay for it and.... GO!
Did this 50 year old make any plans for his future in the more than 3 decades they were in the workforce? Did they try to learn new skills, take on new challenges, attempt to save money? Did they look for other gigs before the $20/hr job went away?

Who should be responsible for someone that has had 30+ years to plan to take care of themselves?


Wellllll... la de frickin da

User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Rate This » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:59 am

Robert Faygo wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:43 am
Rate This wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:26 am
Ok so I’m 50... lost my job making $20 an hour and have to settle for one making $10 an hour while still having to pay the NECESSARY bills. How do I pay for it and.... GO!
Did this 50 year old make any plans for his future in the more than 3 decades they were in the workforce? Did they try to learn new skills, take on new challenges, attempt to save money? Did they look for other gigs before the $20/hr job went away?

Who should be responsible for someone that has had 30+ years to plan to take care of themselves?
They made the reasonable assumption that they would be able to retire from their job. Reasonable that is until it wasn’t.



User avatar
Robert Faygo
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:26 pm
Location: Van Down By The River
Contact:

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Robert Faygo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 pm

Rate This wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:59 am
They made the reasonable assumption that they would be able to retire from their job. Reasonable that is until it wasn’t.
Fair enough.

So, then, given that at 50 you would have already been planning for retirement 17 or so years down the road at 67. Obviously it's too early to draw Social Security. But if this was the retirement gig, you'd have been vested in either a pension that you planned on using (or a 401k, etc) when you turned in your worker ID.

Although it sucks, it really would be your responsibility at age 50 to tap into that retirement plan to take care of your required bills and train yourself for something new. Big Al is on the right track -- there is absolutely no reason to settle for a $10/hour job in today's job market. If you're not making at least $15/hour pretty quickly after losing the $20/hr gig, you're not trying hard enough.

Haven't been to college? Take advantage of Michigan's free Community College program at night to get an associates degree. Sign up for Michigan Works.


Wellllll... la de frickin da

User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Rate This » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:36 pm

Robert Faygo wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 pm
Rate This wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:59 am
They made the reasonable assumption that they would be able to retire from their job. Reasonable that is until it wasn’t.
Fair enough.

So, then, given that at 50 you would have already been planning for retirement 17 or so years down the road at 67. Obviously it's too early to draw Social Security. But if this was the retirement gig, you'd have been vested in either a pension that you planned on using (or a 401k, etc) when you turned in your worker ID.

Although it sucks, it really would be your responsibility at age 50 to tap into that retirement plan to take care of your required bills and train yourself for something new. Big Al is on the right track -- there is absolutely no reason to settle for a $10/hour job in today's job market. If you're not making at least $15/hour pretty quickly after losing the $20/hr gig, you're not trying hard enough.

Haven't been to college? Take advantage of Michigan's free Community College program at night to get an associates degree. Sign up for Michigan Works.
But because of a comment above from ZZ there’s no government help in this scenario. This person is suddenly on their own and trying to make ends meet for less in wage while finding a way to pay for training because they apparently didn’t plan hard enough. The premise being that the government should play no role in this and the individual needs to be accountable for every move and have every contingency covered already.

It smells a little like the impossibility that Rush used to throw out there “work hard and anyone who wants to can be rich too!”... sorry Rush but we cannot all be rich no matter how hard we work. The world doesn’t function like that.



User avatar
Robert Faygo
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:26 pm
Location: Van Down By The River
Contact:

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Robert Faygo » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:56 pm

My bad - I see your angle better now.

No doubt, I'm a big proponent of self-responsibility being the first thing. But I also firmly believe that an advanced civilized society needs to have reasonable safety nets in place that we each play a role in helping carry the load for.

The key for me is reasonable. We should have pretty big expectations that a 50 year-old shouldn't need to rely much on government programs versus being responsible for themselves. Their lack of planning shouldn't constitute an emergency for everyone else. Finding that balance is never easy.


Wellllll... la de frickin da

User avatar
Rate This
Posts: 13964
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:17 am

Re: Global Tax Rate

Post by Rate This » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Robert Faygo wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:56 pm
My bad - I see your angle better now.

No doubt, I'm a big proponent of self-responsibility being the first thing. But I also firmly believe that an advanced civilized society needs to have reasonable safety nets in place that we each play a role in helping carry the load for.

The key for me is reasonable. We should have pretty big expectations that a 50 year-old shouldn't need to rely much on government programs versus being responsible for themselves. Their lack of planning shouldn't constitute an emergency for everyone else. Finding that balance is never easy.
And that’s the crux of the problem that there seems to be no “right” answer for... just how far do we go to help people before it becomes a little ridiculous?

Now if that person were like me... 31 and only been on the job for a handful of years (I do have a bachelors degree but for this exercise lets say I didn’t) and suddenly lose my job driving bus it would be hard to see how I could get a similar one for the pay easily. I’m not strong in the least bit (130-pound bean pole here) so warehouse work is out. I could try to get a class A CDL and drive truck but I really need to be home and on a regular schedule for various reasons. The railroad about killed me too so that’s out despite a train hobby. I would probably try a trade but without much saving it would be nearly impossible out of my own pocket. I can survive on the income I have but not bank tons of money. I might have $5000 in retirement stashed away. It’s hard to see where that money would come from. I have to imagine that’s not an uncommon boat.



Post Reply Previous topicNext topic