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Terms of Use have been amended effective October 6, 2019. Make sure you are aware of the new rules! Please visit this thread for details: https://www.mibuzzboard.com/phpBB3/view ... 16&t=48619
Global Tax Rate
Re: Global Tax Rate
It is not the governments job in any way, shape or form to provide for us from cradle to grave. That is the very essence of the nanny state and is not what this country has always stood for. You want to make a better life for yourself, then go out and do so, through a trade school or whatever but don't expect the government to wipe your ass and pay the way for you. If you, and not you personally, want to better yourself, take the responsibility and do it but don't expect anyone else to do it for you. The minimum wage argument gets old after a while give it up already. I know of no one, including kids in fast food, who make minimum wage, most jobs start at 10 bucks an hour so give that tired old nugget a fucking rest
Re: Global Tax Rate
Ok so I’m 50... lost my job making $20 an hour and have to settle for one making $10 an hour while still having to pay the NECESSARY bills. How do I pay for it and.... GO!zzand wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:24 amIt is not the governments job in any way, shape or form to provide for us from cradle to grave. That is the very essence of the nanny state and is not what this country has always stood for. You want to make a better life for yourself, then go out and do so, through a trade school or whatever but don't expect the government to wipe your ass and pay the way for you. If you, and not you personally, want to better yourself, take the responsibility and do it but don't expect anyone else to do it for you. The minimum wage argument gets old after a while give it up already. I know of no one, including kids in fast food, who make minimum wage, most jobs start at 10 bucks an hour so give that tired old nugget a fucking rest
Re: Global Tax Rate
HVAC, roofing, plumbing, they all pay good and don't take long to learn how to do. There are even loans available for it.
- Robert Faygo
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Re: Global Tax Rate
Did this 50 year old make any plans for his future in the more than 3 decades they were in the workforce? Did they try to learn new skills, take on new challenges, attempt to save money? Did they look for other gigs before the $20/hr job went away?
Who should be responsible for someone that has had 30+ years to plan to take care of themselves?
Wellllll... la de frickin da
Re: Global Tax Rate
They made the reasonable assumption that they would be able to retire from their job. Reasonable that is until it wasn’t.Robert Faygo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:43 amDid this 50 year old make any plans for his future in the more than 3 decades they were in the workforce? Did they try to learn new skills, take on new challenges, attempt to save money? Did they look for other gigs before the $20/hr job went away?
Who should be responsible for someone that has had 30+ years to plan to take care of themselves?
- Robert Faygo
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Re: Global Tax Rate
Fair enough.
So, then, given that at 50 you would have already been planning for retirement 17 or so years down the road at 67. Obviously it's too early to draw Social Security. But if this was the retirement gig, you'd have been vested in either a pension that you planned on using (or a 401k, etc) when you turned in your worker ID.
Although it sucks, it really would be your responsibility at age 50 to tap into that retirement plan to take care of your required bills and train yourself for something new. Big Al is on the right track -- there is absolutely no reason to settle for a $10/hour job in today's job market. If you're not making at least $15/hour pretty quickly after losing the $20/hr gig, you're not trying hard enough.
Haven't been to college? Take advantage of Michigan's free Community College program at night to get an associates degree. Sign up for Michigan Works.
Wellllll... la de frickin da
Re: Global Tax Rate
But because of a comment above from ZZ there’s no government help in this scenario. This person is suddenly on their own and trying to make ends meet for less in wage while finding a way to pay for training because they apparently didn’t plan hard enough. The premise being that the government should play no role in this and the individual needs to be accountable for every move and have every contingency covered already.Robert Faygo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:16 pmFair enough.
So, then, given that at 50 you would have already been planning for retirement 17 or so years down the road at 67. Obviously it's too early to draw Social Security. But if this was the retirement gig, you'd have been vested in either a pension that you planned on using (or a 401k, etc) when you turned in your worker ID.
Although it sucks, it really would be your responsibility at age 50 to tap into that retirement plan to take care of your required bills and train yourself for something new. Big Al is on the right track -- there is absolutely no reason to settle for a $10/hour job in today's job market. If you're not making at least $15/hour pretty quickly after losing the $20/hr gig, you're not trying hard enough.
Haven't been to college? Take advantage of Michigan's free Community College program at night to get an associates degree. Sign up for Michigan Works.
It smells a little like the impossibility that Rush used to throw out there “work hard and anyone who wants to can be rich too!”... sorry Rush but we cannot all be rich no matter how hard we work. The world doesn’t function like that.
- Robert Faygo
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Re: Global Tax Rate
My bad - I see your angle better now.
No doubt, I'm a big proponent of self-responsibility being the first thing. But I also firmly believe that an advanced civilized society needs to have reasonable safety nets in place that we each play a role in helping carry the load for.
The key for me is reasonable. We should have pretty big expectations that a 50 year-old shouldn't need to rely much on government programs versus being responsible for themselves. Their lack of planning shouldn't constitute an emergency for everyone else. Finding that balance is never easy.
No doubt, I'm a big proponent of self-responsibility being the first thing. But I also firmly believe that an advanced civilized society needs to have reasonable safety nets in place that we each play a role in helping carry the load for.
The key for me is reasonable. We should have pretty big expectations that a 50 year-old shouldn't need to rely much on government programs versus being responsible for themselves. Their lack of planning shouldn't constitute an emergency for everyone else. Finding that balance is never easy.
Wellllll... la de frickin da
Re: Global Tax Rate
And that’s the crux of the problem that there seems to be no “right” answer for... just how far do we go to help people before it becomes a little ridiculous?Robert Faygo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:56 pmMy bad - I see your angle better now.
No doubt, I'm a big proponent of self-responsibility being the first thing. But I also firmly believe that an advanced civilized society needs to have reasonable safety nets in place that we each play a role in helping carry the load for.
The key for me is reasonable. We should have pretty big expectations that a 50 year-old shouldn't need to rely much on government programs versus being responsible for themselves. Their lack of planning shouldn't constitute an emergency for everyone else. Finding that balance is never easy.
Now if that person were like me... 31 and only been on the job for a handful of years (I do have a bachelors degree but for this exercise lets say I didn’t) and suddenly lose my job driving bus it would be hard to see how I could get a similar one for the pay easily. I’m not strong in the least bit (130-pound bean pole here) so warehouse work is out. I could try to get a class A CDL and drive truck but I really need to be home and on a regular schedule for various reasons. The railroad about killed me too so that’s out despite a train hobby. I would probably try a trade but without much saving it would be nearly impossible out of my own pocket. I can survive on the income I have but not bank tons of money. I might have $5000 in retirement stashed away. It’s hard to see where that money would come from. I have to imagine that’s not an uncommon boat.