MLB pulls all-star game and draft out of Georgia over new voting laws

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You're both wrong - there is no explicit right of individual citizens to vote found in the Constitution.

While the right to vote isn't explicit in the COTUS, like say the right to keep arms, several amendments have, in the case an election is held, prohibited excluding various groups of people from said vote.

That said, the Georgia law is not at odds with those provisions.

Requiring identification for an absentee ballot is not disenfranchisement.

Limiting and setting regulations for the use of drop boxes, which were originally used because of the pandemic, is not disenfranchisement.

This is largely an argument on semantics. However, I fail to understand the strong resistance to making voting easier and more convenient without sacrificing the integrity of the ballot. We face a crisis of a large disaffected population. It would seem to me that inclusion, accessibility, and prioritizing the voice of the people would go a long way in fixing our current broken state of affairs.

I'd love for nothing more for there to be a return to a culture of working together to solve problems. The arguing wouldn't stop, and it shouldn't because arguing is great, but it would be far less toxic than what we have right now.

That’s why I keep proposing conservatives bring ideas and plans (remember privatizing social security for example?) even if I don’t agree at all at least there is something to discuss. It’s a bunch of loud folks trying to go viral in an echo chamber right now. The Democrats seem to have a plan for everything, whether that’s good or bad it’s more constructive...

[jadednihilist]

That’s why I keep proposing conservatives bring ideas and plans (remember privatizing social security for example?) even if I don’t agree at all at least there is something to discuss. It’s a bunch of loud folks trying to go viral in an echo chamber right now. The Democrats seem to have a plan for everything, whether that’s good or bad it’s more constructive...

I'm in large agreement here that the GOP is in serious need of broadening their platform and expanding their tent. There are plenty of free market, small government solutions to our problems on the table. These need to be pushed. Otherwise, as you've alluded, Democrats have a monopoly on the issue and single party control always ends up being a bad thing.

[MWmetalhead]

I read the text and agree with bmw's interpretation and Bryce's, too.

The purpose of the prohibition(s) is to restrict politically affiliated organizations from trying to influence votes. There is nothing in the text that prohibits election workers from handing out water. There is nothing in the text that treats certain ethnicities differently.

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

So, I agree that MLB's decision is an absurd overreaction, unless it is a concerted effort to pander to African Americans, since African American interest and participation in baseball has been waning for a long time.

[zzand]

Overall interest in baseball has been waning for along time period. I agree the wording is centered around electioneering. Most states have rules about this on the books. The MSM seized on one thing and ran with it and as per normal didn't read it through.

[bmw]

This is a solution in search of a problem. The GOP seems to think higher vote totals help the Democrats, the evidence doesn’t really support that.

The response to the amended law is peddlers of victimhood looking for a victim where there is no victim.

[bmw]

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

THIS. I've voted in-person, on election day, every single election in which I've been eligible to vote, I had to show photo ID, and I never had to wait in any kind of a long line. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the long lines are caused by a combination of incompetence and possibly even intent - ie, poll workers intentionally making the lines move slow so as to play up to those cameras. It is also possible, as much as I hate to say it, that less-educated voters (which are undoubtedly concentrated in certain inner-city precincts) simply take longer to go through the voting process as a whole because they don't really know what they're doing. The incompetent leading the ignorant can certainly significantly slow down a process like voting, or, to use one of RT's phrases, can really "gum up the works." I'll bet it would be interesting to observe from indoors one of these long-line precincts.

[Rate This]

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

THIS. I've voted in-person, on election day, every single election in which I've been eligible to vote, I had to show photo ID, and I never had to wait in any kind of a long line. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the long lines are caused by a combination of incompetence and possibly even intent - ie, poll workers intentionally making the lines move slow so as to play up to those cameras. It is also possible, as much as I hate to say it, that less-educated voters (which are undoubtedly concentrated in certain inner-city precincts) simply take longer to go through the voting process as a whole because they don't really know what they're doing. The incompetent leading the ignorant can certainly significantly slow down a process like voting, or, to use one of RT's phrases, can really "gum up the works." I'll bet it would be interesting to observe from indoors one of these long-line precincts.

Or it could be the selective elimination of large numbers of precincts in certain areas under the guise of “saving money”.

[zzand]

Can't speak for everywhere but the polling place I go to is manned by three people who grew up with Moses and move at one speed...snail

[km1125]

I read the text and agree with bmw's interpretation and Bryce's, too.

The purpose of the prohibition(s) is to restrict politically affiliated organizations from trying to influence votes. There is nothing in the text that prohibits election workers from handing out water. There is nothing in the text that treats certain ethnicities differently.

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

So, I agree that MLB's decision is an absurd overreaction, unless it is a concerted effort to pander to African Americans, since African American interest and participation in baseball has been waning for a long time.

Fully agree with everything you wrote there. SPOT ON. It's too bad that the "pandering to a segment" is not highlighted more as the real reason for a lot of corporate decisions.

As to the long lines: If they're like most places I've voted, the places are staffed by neighborhood volunteers. If they are understaffed, then IT'S THEIR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD that's the problem. Folks want to vote conveniently but don't want to expend the effort to help THEIR OWN NEIGHBORS get it done efficiently.

[jadednihilist]

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

THIS. I've voted in-person, on election day, every single election in which I've been eligible to vote, I had to show photo ID, and I never had to wait in any kind of a long line. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the long lines are caused by a combination of incompetence and possibly even intent - ie, poll workers intentionally making the lines move slow so as to play up to those cameras. It is also possible, as much as I hate to say it, that less-educated voters (which are undoubtedly concentrated in certain inner-city precincts) simply take longer to go through the voting process as a whole because they don't really know what they're doing. The incompetent leading the ignorant can certainly significantly slow down a process like voting, or, to use one of RT's phrases, can really "gum up the works." I'll bet it would be interesting to observe from indoors one of these long-line precincts.

Or it could be the selective elimination of large numbers of precincts in certain areas under the guise of “saving money”.

I am also someone who votes takes time to vote in every single election, including all local elections that have significant implications for my community but also have traditionally abysmal voter turnouts. I have also on several occasions gone through the effort to help friends and family get to polling places irrespective of their politics/party affiliation.

I am not sure if the attribution of blame toward heavily populated county officials here is entirely appropriate here. This is an NPR article from October 2020: https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/92452767 ... polling-pl

Key quotes:

The clogged polling locations in metro Atlanta reflect an underlying pattern: the number of places to vote has shrunk statewide, with little recourse. Although the reduction in polling places has taken place across racial lines, it has primarily caused long lines in nonwhite neighborhoods where voter registration has surged and more residents cast ballots in person on Election Day. The pruning of polling places started long before the pandemic, which has discouraged people from voting in person.

Since the U.S. Supreme Court's Shelby v. Holder decision in 2013 eliminated key federal oversight of election decisions in states with histories of discrimination, Georgia's voter rolls have grown by nearly 2 million people, yet polling locations have been cut statewide by nearly 10%, according to an analysis of state and local records by Georgia Public Broadcasting and ProPublica.

The metro Atlanta area has been hit particularly hard. The nine counties — Fulton, Gwinnett, Forsyth, DeKalb, Cobb, Hall, Cherokee, Henry and Clayton — have nearly half of the state's active voters but only 38% of the polling places, according to the analysis.

As a result, the average number of voters packed into each polling location in those counties grew by nearly 40%, from about 2,600 in 2012 to more than 3,600 per polling place as of Oct. 9, the analysis shows. In addition, a last-minute push that opened more than 90 polling places just weeks before the November election has left many voters uncertain about where to vote or how long they might wait to cast a ballot.

It seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the process election resource allocations are largely determined by state, not local officials. And as a result, local officials have limited recourse to appeal these decisions if their jurisdiction does not get the appropriate funding to manage an election.

Again, my primary concern which remains unaddressed is why are we justifying barriers that make voting disproportionally difficult for certain constituencies rather than seeking solutions that maximize voter participation? The system we had in Michigan prior to 2020 was abysmal. The current system, while not perfect, is a large step in the right direction.

[Rate This]

The long lines we commonly see on TV? Perhaps the county elections officials in Fulton County, Dekalb County and elsewhere (most of whom are Democrats) need to do a better job logistically with regard to on-site voting locations.

The funny thing is - in Michigan, we never had early voting until very recently, and we never had no-reason absentee ballots until very recently. The new laws in Georgia are less restrictive than the laws that prevailed in Michigan for many decades under both Republican and Democratic administrations alike.

THIS. I've voted in-person, on election day, every single election in which I've been eligible to vote, I had to show photo ID, and I never had to wait in any kind of a long line. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the long lines are caused by a combination of incompetence and possibly even intent - ie, poll workers intentionally making the lines move slow so as to play up to those cameras. It is also possible, as much as I hate to say it, that less-educated voters (which are undoubtedly concentrated in certain inner-city precincts) simply take longer to go through the voting process as a whole because they don't really know what they're doing. The incompetent leading the ignorant can certainly significantly slow down a process like voting, or, to use one of RT's phrases, can really "gum up the works." I'll bet it would be interesting to observe from indoors one of these long-line precincts.

Or it could be the selective elimination of large numbers of precincts in certain areas under the guise of “saving money”.

I am also someone who votes takes time to vote in every single election, including all local elections that have significant implications for my community but also have traditionally abysmal voter turnouts. I have also on several occasions gone through the effort to help friends and family get to polling places irrespective of their politics/party affiliation.

I am not sure if the attribution of blame toward heavily populated county officials here is entirely appropriate here. This is an NPR article from October 2020: https://www.npr.org/2020/10/17/92452767 ... polling-pl

Key quotes:

The clogged polling locations in metro Atlanta reflect an underlying pattern: the number of places to vote has shrunk statewide, with little recourse. Although the reduction in polling places has taken place across racial lines, it has primarily caused long lines in nonwhite neighborhoods where voter registration has surged and more residents cast ballots in person on Election Day. The pruning of polling places started long before the pandemic, which has discouraged people from voting in person.

Since the U.S. Supreme Court's Shelby v. Holder decision in 2013 eliminated key federal oversight of election decisions in states with histories of discrimination, Georgia's voter rolls have grown by nearly 2 million people, yet polling locations have been cut statewide by nearly 10%, according to an analysis of state and local records by Georgia Public Broadcasting and ProPublica.

The metro Atlanta area has been hit particularly hard. The nine counties — Fulton, Gwinnett, Forsyth, DeKalb, Cobb, Hall, Cherokee, Henry and Clayton — have nearly half of the state's active voters but only 38% of the polling places, according to the analysis.

As a result, the average number of voters packed into each polling location in those counties grew by nearly 40%, from about 2,600 in 2012 to more than 3,600 per polling place as of Oct. 9, the analysis shows. In addition, a last-minute push that opened more than 90 polling places just weeks before the November election has left many voters uncertain about where to vote or how long they might wait to cast a ballot.

It seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the process election resource allocations are largely determined by state, not local officials. And as a result, local officials have limited recourse to appeal these decisions if their jurisdiction does not get the appropriate funding to manage an election.

Again, my primary concern which remains unaddressed is why are we justifying barriers that make voting disproportionally difficult for certain constituencies rather than seeking solutions that maximize voter participation? The system we had in Michigan prior to 2020 was abysmal. The current system, while not perfect, is a large step in the right direction.

Because one group is attempting to preserve power or attain it again by squeezing the access to voting subtly.

One additional thought...
The electoral college has some blame here I think. Absent that crutch the Republicans would be REQUIRED to adapt their ideas to appeal to a wide swatch of the country at the presidential level and in turn that would trickle down (guess it is good for something) to the policies at the local level. As it stands now it’s artificially propping them up and they are free to not pursue an agenda or work constructively or come up with ideas. If they had to compete and win in order to make their vision a reality they would suddenly get lots of more widely palatable ideas I think. Otherwise they would go the way of the dodo. Since 1992 if we were to use that system the only race they “won” is 2004. They’ve lost every other presidential contest in raw numbers. Most parties would adapt rather than double down on what doesn’t work...

[km1125]

While no one (well, not anyone who should be qualified to vote) should be prevented from voting, no one should also be encouraged to vote "just because they can". That serves no useful purpose to society if you have folks who are randomly voting or just voting based on popularity.

Trying to figure out how to vote is much less complicated than figuring out WHO to vote for.

[jadednihilist]

While no one (well, not anyone who should be qualified to vote) should be prevented from voting, no one should also be encouraged to vote "just because they can". That serves no useful purpose to society if you have folks who are randomly voting or just voting based on popularity.

Trying to figure out how to vote is much less complicated than figuring out WHO to vote for.

I don't disagree here. To clarify, my argument is to reduce the barriers to voting to it accessible to anyone genuinely wants to cast a ballot without unnecessary excessive burdens. Limiting polling sites makes it difficult to vote in person if you lack the means to transportation or have disabilities and implicitly imposes an excess undue barrier to voting. It's not so much a lack of will preventing voting as much as a pragmatic issue in their own lives. Anyone eligible voter who wants to vote should be able to do so somewhat conveniently, regardless of life circumstances.

[km1125]

While no one (well, not anyone who should be qualified to vote) should be prevented from voting, no one should also be encouraged to vote "just because they can". That serves no useful purpose to society if you have folks who are randomly voting or just voting based on popularity.

Trying to figure out how to vote is much less complicated than figuring out WHO to vote for.

I don't disagree here. To clarify, my argument is to reduce the barriers to voting to it accessible to anyone genuinely wants to cast a ballot without unnecessary excessive burdens. Limiting polling sites makes it difficult to vote in person if you lack the means to transportation or have disabilities and implicitly imposes an excess undue barrier to voting. It's not so much a lack of will preventing voting as much as a pragmatic issue in their own lives. Anyone eligible voter who wants to vote should be able to do so somewhat conveniently, regardless of life circumstances.

I guess it depends on the definition of "convenient". If polling places are open and accessible and properly staffed, folks should not have a problem voting in person. We don't need drop boxes put on every corner of ever block to try and accommodate anyone who might not want to put the effort to getting to the polls.

"“America isn’t easy. America is advanced citizenship. You’ve gotta want it bad, ’cause it’s gonna put up a fight."

[bmw]