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For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

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bmw
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For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by bmw » Thu May 28, 2020 10:16 am

Sorry for the long post that follows, but there's a lot to get to here...

First, the 2-post tweet in question from Trump:
There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed up with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never even thought of voting before, how, and for whom, to vote. This will be a Rigged Election. No way!
For the first time ever, Twitter posted a fact-check link immediately under both halves of this tweet with an execlamation point and a link that reads "Get the facts about mail-in ballots." When you click on that link, you are taken to this page:

https://twitter.com/i/events/1265330601034256384

The headline is "Trump makes unsubstantiated claim that mail-in ballots will lead to voter fraud" and it goes on to say that:
On Tuesday, President Trump made a series of claims about potential voter fraud after California Governor Gavin Newsom announced an effort to expand mail-in voting in California during the COVID-19 pandemic. These claims are unsubstantiated, according to CNN, Washington Post and others. Experts say mail-in ballots are very rarely linked to voter fraud.
There's quite a bit more stuff on this so-called "fact-check" page. Go read it....interesting stuff.

Now...the response from the Trump administration? An executive order...
According to a draft of the order obtained by CNBC, Trump would direct the Federal Communications Commission to propose and clarify regulations of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. It would also encourage the Federal Trade Commission to take action against companies engaging in “deceptive” acts of communication. The working draft of the order cites Twitter by name.

The statute targeted in the executive order is commonly criticized by lawmakers across the political spectrum for shielding Big Tech companies from liability for their users’ content. Section 230 was created to allow online platforms to engage in “good Samaritan” moderation of “objectionable” material without being treated like a publisher or speaker. In effect, some conservatives have claimed, it also allows them to get away with removing political views they object to. Social media companies like Twitter and Facebook have vigorously denied such accusations.

Ahead of the White House’s announcement about the executive order, Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., said he would introduce legislation “to end these special government giveaways.” He’s previously introduced a bill that would grant companies the liability protection if they submitted to audits to ensure their algorithms and content-removal practices are “politically neutral.

“If @Twitter wants to editorialize & comment on users’ posts, it should be divested of its special status under federal law (Section 230) & forced to play by same rules as all other publishers,” Hawley wrote in a tweet.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/28/twitter ... weets.html

========================================

My thoughts

First, Twitter is a privately owned company. I believe they have the legal right to respond in any way they see fit to any of its users' posts. It is really no different than MW on this site responding to any post by anybody in any of these otherwise public forums.

Now that said, I don't think Twitter should be in the business of directly engaging in political debate with any politicians, let alone the President (who is up for re-election). That should be up to the opposition party and their supporters, NOT the platform itself. Their so-called "Fact-Check" page reads more like something you would see put out by an opposing political party's campaign than a neutral strictly fact-based response. This page loses credibility for me the moment Twitter cite's CNN, of all sources, as its FIRST fact-check source. I mean seriously? CNN? That network is vehemently anti-Trump and as yellow as journalism gets, and they're who you cite to challenge the truth of one of the President's statements? That to me is beyond unbelievable.

It is also fair to point out that there is a big difference between an "unsubstantiated" claim and a "proven false" claim. Is the new burden on politicians moving forward (or at least, Republicans) that every post on twitter must be able to be proven to be true? Since when did Twitter become the arbitror of truth?

Bottom line is I think Twitter was way out of line here. They're effectively filling the shoes of the Joe Biden campaign, and doing something even Biden can't do - posting a link directly below one of the President's posts. Even Mark Zuckerberg this morning said that social media should not be in the business of fact-checking the President.



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Rate This
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Rate This » Thu May 28, 2020 10:36 am

bmw wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:16 am
Sorry for the long post that follows, but there's a lot to get to here...

First, the 2-post tweet in question from Trump:
There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed up with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never even thought of voting before, how, and for whom, to vote. This will be a Rigged Election. No way!
For the first time ever, Twitter posted a fact-check link immediately under both halves of this tweet with an execlamation point and a link that reads "Get the facts about mail-in ballots." When you click on that link, you are taken to this page:

https://twitter.com/i/events/1265330601034256384

The headline is "Trump makes unsubstantiated claim that mail-in ballots will lead to voter fraud" and it goes on to say that:
On Tuesday, President Trump made a series of claims about potential voter fraud after California Governor Gavin Newsom announced an effort to expand mail-in voting in California during the COVID-19 pandemic. These claims are unsubstantiated, according to CNN, Washington Post and others. Experts say mail-in ballots are very rarely linked to voter fraud.
There's quite a bit more stuff on this so-called "fact-check" page. Go read it....interesting stuff.

Now...the response from the Trump administration? An executive order...
According to a draft of the order obtained by CNBC, Trump would direct the Federal Communications Commission to propose and clarify regulations of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. It would also encourage the Federal Trade Commission to take action against companies engaging in “deceptive” acts of communication. The working draft of the order cites Twitter by name.

The statute targeted in the executive order is commonly criticized by lawmakers across the political spectrum for shielding Big Tech companies from liability for their users’ content. Section 230 was created to allow online platforms to engage in “good Samaritan” moderation of “objectionable” material without being treated like a publisher or speaker. In effect, some conservatives have claimed, it also allows them to get away with removing political views they object to. Social media companies like Twitter and Facebook have vigorously denied such accusations.

Ahead of the White House’s announcement about the executive order, Sen. Josh Hawley, R-Mo., said he would introduce legislation “to end these special government giveaways.” He’s previously introduced a bill that would grant companies the liability protection if they submitted to audits to ensure their algorithms and content-removal practices are “politically neutral.

“If @Twitter wants to editorialize & comment on users’ posts, it should be divested of its special status under federal law (Section 230) & forced to play by same rules as all other publishers,” Hawley wrote in a tweet.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/28/twitter ... weets.html

========================================

My thoughts

First, Twitter is a privately owned company. I believe they have the legal right to respond in any way they see fit to any of its users' posts. It is really no different than MW on this site responding to any post by anybody in any of these otherwise public forums.

Now that said, I don't think Twitter should be in the business of directly engaging in political debate with any politicians, let alone the President (who is up for re-election). That should be up to the opposition party and their supporters, NOT the platform itself. Their so-called "Fact-Check" page reads more like something you would see put out by an opposing political party's campaign than a neutral strictly fact-based response. This page loses credibility for me the moment Twitter cite's CNN, of all sources, as its FIRST fact-check source. I mean seriously? CNN? That network is vehemently anti-Trump and as yellow as journalism gets, and they're who you cite to challenge the truth of one of the President's statements? That to me is beyond unbelievable.

It is also fair to point out that there is a big difference between an "unsubstantiated" claim and a "proven false" claim. Is the new burden on politicians moving forward (or at least, Republicans) that every post on twitter must be able to be proven to be true? Since when did Twitter become the arbitror of truth?

Bottom line is I think Twitter was way out of line here. They're effectively filling the shoes of the Joe Biden campaign, and doing something even Biden can't do - posting a link directly below one of the President's posts. Even Mark Zuckerberg this morning said that social media should not be in the business of fact-checking the President.
Twitter has been slammed for years for not addressing what are fairly clear violations of its terms of service by Trumps tweets. This is their attempt to mollify those criticisms..



screen glare
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by screen glare » Thu May 28, 2020 10:41 am

bmw- the real bottom line here is our president is mentally ill. Which leads to - finally - more Americans who voted for him - including law makers - realizing that he IS mentally ill because of his “response” to the life or death (people and the economy) Coronavirus pandemic.

The president - wackier as the election looms. Polls - making him panic. People realizing - the election is their chance to dump Trump for a sane presidential administration that won’t get them or the economy permanently rubbed out.

And now - Trump MESSING with that election, again. He’s threatening the people’s chance to dump him.

And that’s the true bottom of the bottom line, bmw. Even Twitter - finally feeling “the urgency of now.”



bmw
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by bmw » Thu May 28, 2020 10:51 am

Neither of you addressed the issue of whether it should be the role of a tech giant platform such as twitter to directly engage in political debate with world leaders who use the platform, and do so in such a way that even the political opposition can not (ie, compiling a response page and putting a hyberlink to said page immediately below the tweet in question) ? I say it absolutely should not be, regardless of the politician in question.



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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Rate This » Thu May 28, 2020 10:59 am

bmw wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:51 am
Neither of you addressed the issue of whether it should be the role of a tech giant platform such as twitter to directly engage in political debate with world leaders who use the platform, and do so in such a way that even the political opposition can not (ie, compiling a response page and putting a hyberlink to said page immediately below the tweet in question) ? I say it absolutely should not be, regardless of the politician in question.
As a private company they should be able to monitor and police what is said on their platform to their hearts content. It’s not like it’s a first amendment issue. They have the right to do with their platform what they wish. Period.



screen glare
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by screen glare » Thu May 28, 2020 11:03 am

Rate This is correct.

And Twitter is exercising its right - now - due to Trump’s mental illness symptoms urgently becoming more dangerous.
Last edited by screen glare on Thu May 28, 2020 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.



bmw
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by bmw » Thu May 28, 2020 11:08 am

Fine. Then people like Screen Glare have absolutely no legitimate complaint against the likes of the Russians using social media to so-called "interfere" with our election. If Twitter is just a private platform and their owners can do whatever they please with it, then that includes allowing "foreign interference."



bmw
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by bmw » Thu May 28, 2020 11:12 am

And to be clear, I never suggested what they did was illegal (though, given the size of the platform, perhaps it should be, at least if they want the protections afforded to them under Section 230 of the CDA). I simply asked if you have a problem with Twitter effectively taking sides and filling the shoes of a politician's opposition. Apparently you don't. I personally think given the size of Twitter and the relative market share that Youtube+Facebook+Twitter has for the sharing of political views online (I'd estimate it to be in the neighborhood of 80% or maybe more) that these tech giants shouldn't be in the business of arbitrating the truth.



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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Rate This » Thu May 28, 2020 11:16 am

bmw wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:08 am
Fine. Then people like Screen Glare have absolutely no legitimate complaint against the likes of the Russians using social media to so-called "interfere" with our election. If Twitter is just a private platform and their owners can do whatever they please with it, then that includes allowing "foreign interference."
It is a private platform and the first amendment doesn’t mean diddly squat surrounding it. The first amendment is protecting you from arrest or censure by the government for expressing yourself through speech. It does not stop private entities from throwing you out, censoring you or putting a disclaimer on your tweet. I mention all that because Trump has been pushing the false idea that the first amendment puts him in the right. He is either being purposefully deceptive or he legitimately doesn’t understand what the first amendment is and what it does.

Something which they have taken steps to prevent in the future. Arguably not enough but that’s not the only vulnerability we have either. Voter registration systems and voting machines are significantly vulnerable to hacking... something the Russians are rather good at.

To your most recent point... funny how you are against government interfering with private entities until it doesn’t favor a conservative and then it’s time to bring the hammer down... you don’t get both. Either you want the government rolling into situations to arbitrate what organizations do with their platforms and punish them if they do something with it you don’t like or you feel their private status should be respected. If this were Biden they were doing it to you’d be posting “See!! I knew it!!”



screen glare
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by screen glare » Thu May 28, 2020 11:20 am

Rate This is correct.



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Bryce
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Bryce » Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 am

This is really noting new.

Do some googling on FDR's war against the press. He enacted a number of things that curbed the actions of private communication entities.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Rate This » Thu May 28, 2020 12:02 pm

Bryce wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:48 am
This is really noting new.

Do some googling on FDR's war against the press. He enacted a number of things that curbed the actions of private communication entities.
The Fairness Doctrine perhaps?



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Bryce
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Bryce » Thu May 28, 2020 12:05 pm

Rate This wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:02 pm

The Fairness Doctrine perhaps?
No, outright threats, policy initiatives and intimidation as well.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Rate This » Thu May 28, 2020 12:15 pm

Bryce wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:05 pm
Rate This wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:02 pm

The Fairness Doctrine perhaps?
No, outright threats, policy initiatives and intimidation as well.
I know there were several things thrown into the act that created the FCC in 1934...



Matt
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Re: For the first time ever, Twitter fact-checks the President

Post by Matt » Thu May 28, 2020 12:24 pm

I'm sure Twitter is going to be consistent and fact check all the bullshit lies told about Trump the last 3 1/2 years...


What's more pathetic: harassing an old man who is paying to do a radio show or supporting a grifter like Trump?

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