Flint Water trials cancelled

[TC Talks]

I wonder where this is going. I suspect that the targets of Schuette's prosecution will become witnesses for new charges against Muchmore and Snyder. Muchmore was the mastermind behind moving Flint to the new water pipeline and subsequent river water intake. Let's hope the right guy goes to prison.

DETROIT (AP) — Prosecutors dropped all criminal charges Thursday against eight people in the Flint water crisis and pledged to start from scratch the investigation into one of the worst man-made environmental disasters in U.S. history.

https://www.record-eagle.com/state/pros ... 4228f.html

[Deleted User 4520]

They really know how to milk a story to death. Time to move on. What's done is done.

[screen glare]

I have faith in Kym Worthy. If she’s involved the correct big fish will be brought to justice. And it starts with all of the evidence. Including state issued electronic devices former governor Snyder and others were using to communicate.

[Bryce]

The study also showed two other unexpected results: Lead levels dropped after initially spiking after the water switch in April 2014, rather than getting progressively worse during the 18 months the city used river water, and lead levels in Flint sewage sludge was actually higher in 2011, while the city was using pre-treated water from Lake Huron, than at any point since

Interesting new data has come to light. I wonder how this will figure in future investigations? Seems testing had been being fudged prior to the switch over.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mli ... tType=amp

[Matt]

I wonder where this is going. I suspect that the targets of Schuette's prosecution will become witnesses for new charges against Muchmore and Snyder. Muchmore was the mastermind behind moving Flint to the new water pipeline and subsequent river water intake. Let's hope the right guy goes to prison.

DETROIT (AP) — Prosecutors dropped all criminal charges Thursday against eight people in the Flint water crisis and pledged to start from scratch the investigation into one of the worst man-made environmental disasters in U.S. history.

https://www.record-eagle.com/state/pros ... 4228f.html

Nobody is going to prison. Nobody was EVER going to prison. The decision to switch was approved by Flint's incompetent city council and was executed under the direction of the state, as the city was under state emergency management. Bill Schuette initiated the investigation and overshot the prosecution to differentiate himself from his main primary opponent. The new leadership in the AG's office reviewed the evidence and found just this, but they're attempting to use the situation for political gain. You've seen how they've apparently slandered Todd Flood every step of the way. Make no mistake, there will be plenty of innuendos but NO actual further criminal charges.

I have faith in Kym Worthy. If she’s involved the correct big fish will be brought to justice. And it starts with all of the evidence. Including state issued electronic devices former governor Snyder and others were using to communicate.

I have zero faith in politicians. That includes prosecutors.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/9 ... tty-she-is

[MWmetalhead]

I, too, am frustrated by the denigration of Todd Flood's work by Nessel and her minions.

There is zero evidence Muchmore did anything wrong.

I remind everyone that Nick Lyon was a very big fish in the Snyder administration, so I guess I don't understand TC Talks' remarks. Eden Wells isn't exactly small potatoes, either.

I disagree with Matt completely that future political aspirations factored into Schuette's actions. He wanted justice for those who suffered as a result of MDEQ's, DHHS's and Flint DPW's disgusting actions.

Poll after poll showed Flint wasn't a big factor one way or the other for GOP primary voters, and it didn't seem to help Schuette at all in the general election.

I fear Nessel's investigation will be influenced far more by politics than Schuette's ever was. And, yes, it would not at all surprise me if no charges are reinstated and no new charges are brought.

The message this sends? If you are a rank-and-file employee or middle manager in state government and intentionally manipulated or withheld data to both mislead & endanger the public - no worries! Dana Nessel's got your back! (We're only interested in targeting household names who are partisan politicians of the opposing party.)

If one or more of the previously charged individuals were acting on orders from someone "much higher up," we would've heard about it by now!!

All I can say is - I'm proud to have voted for Tom Leonard.

[FET-500]

Blood Pb was greater prior to the "crisis".

"Lead release to potable water during the Flint, Michigan water crisis as revealed by routine biosolids monitoring data"

"The worst childhood lead exposure occurred in 2011, unrelated to the FWC."



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub

[Matt]

I, too, am frustrated by the denigration of Todd Flood's work by Nessel and her minions.

There is zero evidence Muchmore did anything wrong.

I remind everyone that Nick Lyon was a very big fish in the Snyder administration, so I guess I don't understand TC Talks' remarks. Eden Wells isn't exactly small potatoes, either.

I disagree with Matt completely that future political aspirations factored into Schuette's actions. He wanted justice for those who suffered as a result of MDEQ's, DHHS's and Flint DPW's disgusting actions.

Poll after poll showed Flint wasn't a big factor one way or the other for GOP primary voters, and it didn't seem to help Schuette at all in the general election.

I fear Nessel's investigation will be influenced far more by politics than Schuette's ever was. And, yes, it would not at all surprise me if no charges are reinstated and no new charges are brought.

The message this sends? If you are a rank-and-file employee or middle manager in state government and intentionally manipulated or withheld data to both mislead & endanger the public - no worries! Dana Nessel's got your back! (We're only interested in targeting household names who are partisan politicians of the opposing party.)

If one or more of the previously charged individuals were acting on orders from someone "much higher up," we would've heard about it by now!!

All I can say is - I'm proud to have voted for Tom Leonard.

Would you at least agree that the charges were bullshit? Want to investigate? Fine. The real culprit was decades of local mismanagement in Flint.

[Bryce]

Blood Pb was greater prior to the "crisis".

"Lead release to potable water during the Flint, Michigan water crisis as revealed by routine biosolids monitoring data"

"The worst childhood lead exposure occurred in 2011, unrelated to the FWC."
This


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... via%3Dihub

THIS

[MWmetalhead]

Would you at least agree that the charges were bullshit? Want to investigate? Fine. The real culprit was decades of local mismanagement in Flint.

Most of the charges were warranted, in my opinion. Some of the involuntary manslaughter charges may have been an overreach. The Judge who presided over the preliminary exam certainly was convinced all charges against Lyon were reasonable, including the manslaughter charge.

"Decades of local mismanagement" isn't the direct reason lead testing results following the switch were bastardized by MDEQ officials, and sure as hell isn't the reason MDEQ's supposed drinking water experts were completely incompetent and malfeasant in carrying out their job duties.

GM's metallic parts weren't rusting in 2011. Residents weren't developing skin lesions and rashes from contact with local water in 2011. There wasn't a legionnaire's outbreak in 2011, either.

Now, all that said, I certainly don't deny that Flint's government has been loaded with bad people over the years. Mayor Walling was a fucking embarrassment and didn't do a damn thing to help his constituents. He clearly was a proponent of using the Flint River as a drinking water source and was willing to "go down with the ship." Everyone remembers the photo-op when the switch was flipped.

The fact Flint's wastewater plant was inadequately separating & processing solids as far back as 2011 is even more proof that the Flint Water Plant was ill-prepared to supply drinking water directly to Flint residents! Simply making a terrible decision is not a criminal act, though. (It certainly has the potential to be tortious, but not criminal.)

The criminality came from the intentional distortion of data for purposes of misrepresenting the quality of Flint's water, including but not limited to data analyzing causation of the legionnaire's outbreak.

My prediction - at the end of the day, the civil litigation will probably prove to be more noteworthy than the criminal litigation.

[TC Talks]

I am wondering if Schuette's office didn't actually do an investigation because it was merely a campaign stunt. So now they have to start over and open a real investigation.

[MasterB]

Just changing chairs on the boat is all Dana should have kept the charges as is. I don't trust her I have disliked her from the beginning for AG Pat Miles would've been the much better choice as AG on the Dem side would maybe have voted for Pat if he won. Tom would have been the better AG than who we have right now Dana I hope she loses in 2022.

Sad that there will be no justice for Flint no one will be going to jail civil litigation will be noteworthy as MW said.

[audiophile]

I thought it was heavy-handed by Schuette to charge those people with crimes.

The Flint River has been used as a high-demand and backup water source for the city of Flint since the 1950's when they switched to Detroit's water source. Forgetting to add anti-corrosive agents was due to a boneheaded consultant firm. Had they added non-corrosives there would have been non-story...But by then damage was done and the switch back to Detroit water supply was only way to gain public trust again.

This was a civil matter.

[TC Shuts Up]

A few points need to be made here.

First of all, there is a misconception that Flint River water is inherently undrinkable. I've heard the people from the Watershed Council address this on various radio interviews. Although it may be on the acidic pH side, this is VERY COMMON and easily correctable. And most of the people talking about pH NEVER EVEN TOOK CHEMISTRY! Also, people have the misconception that the water downstream just past the sewage treatment plant is used for intake for drinking water. In fact, the intake is UPSTREAM from the vast majority of both industrial and human sources of pollution. Remember also that the sewer water flows into the Flint and Saginaw Rivers, Saginaw Bay, Lake Huron, the St. Clair River, Lake St. Clair, and BACK TO THE DETROIT RIVER before the Detroit water system intake. So whatever "horrible" things that are in the Flint River, end up back in Detroit. Doesn't much of Ohio use water from Lake Erie, that allegedly catches fire? Did these "keeds" ever hear of THE WATER CYCLE? DID THEY NEVER STUDY GEOGRAPHY? All the talk about RECYCLING, and this NEVER OCCURRED TO THEM? What do you think the astronauts drink on long missions in space? You need water to make TANG too! AND NEVER FORGET THAT ALL THE DISSOLVED WILD ANIMAL PEE PEE AND POO POO FOR THOUSAND OF YEARS FLOWED BACK TO THE WATER TABLE AND STREAMS, THOUGH FILTERED BY SAND AND DIRT. NOT PLEASANT TO THINK ABOUT, BUT UNDENIBALY TRUE.

Also, the reason the Flint officials switched over to Flint River water was THAT THEY WERE BEING OVERCHARGED FOR DETROIT WATER BY OFFICIALS IN DETROIT. They were paying exorbitant rates for Detroit water BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN DETROIT WON'T PAY THEIR WATER BILLS. WHY AREN'T DETROIT OFFICIALS EVER CALLED TO ANSWER ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION, HAVING BEEN A HUQE FACTOR IN CREATING THE NEED TO USE FLINT RIVER WATER IN THE FIRST PLACE?

ALL OF THIS AFTERMATH IS MAINLY A HUQE EXERCISE IN FINGER POINTING FOR POLITICAL GAIN!

[MWmetalhead]

Forgetting to add anti-corrosive agents was due to a boneheaded consultant firm. Had they added non-corrosives there would have been no story. But by then damage was done and the switch back to Detroit water supply was only way to gain public trust again.

You are half right.

Yes - proper non-corrosive additives would indeed had made this a non-story. I've mentioned that repeatedly over the past couple years. Proper non-corrosive additives and proper technology at the Flint Water Plant would've made usage of the Flint River palatable.

But it was the MDEQ - who are supposed to be EXPERTS - who advised that non-corrosive additives were not needed. Then, certain individuals in the MDEQ willfully engaged in a cover-up to hide the dangers of their terrible mistake from the public!!! Tampering of lead testing samples occurred. How on earth is the latter not criminal?!?!?!

Then, we have the whole legionnaire's brouhaha. That is more of a gray area, simply because there's less publicly available information as to the motives of the players involved. Clearly, Schuette and Flood thought there was enough damning evidence against Lyon, Wells, etc. to bring charges. This is the area where I think successful criminal prosecution would be relatively difficult.

Also, the reason the Flint officials switched over to Flint River water was THAT THEY WERE BEING OVERCHARGED FOR DETROIT WATER BY OFFICIALS IN DETROIT.

Your allegation of "overcharging" is really a mathematical calculation arising from the fact a very high percentage of Flint residents weren't paying their water bills. The payees were having to pay high rates to subsidize free loaders. It has nothing to do with Detroit residents. You really have no idea what you're talking about. The rate schema doesn't work that way.

I lived in Warren for 11 years - the water comes from Detroit - and the rates I paid there were DIRT CHEAP. Why? Simple! Warren residents pay their water bills en masse in a timely fashion. Sterling Heights also has very affordable rates, and their water comes from Detroit.