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July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

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TheForce
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by TheForce » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:50 pm

This just pisses me off. We want rates to go down, not UP UP UP!



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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by Deleted User 14935 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:59 pm

I pay $2600.00 a year, $1500.00 on a 2019 Lincoln and $1100.00 on a 2013 Ford Fiesta, And My Wife and I have no tickets not at least in 10 years, And we have a deal with the House insurance and both cars in one package, Go figure.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by MWmetalhead » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:50 am

While this is indeed frustrating, the ability of health providers to use auto insurance as corporate welfare is by far the biggest reason our rates are sky high. Insurance companies have to reimburse health providers for their outrageously high charges, which in turn jacks up rates for everyone.

Rate schedules need to be created & enforced, and auto insurance medical coverage by law should be treated as the reimbursement source of LAST RESORT (meaning it should only be utilized if the patient lacks insufficient primary health insurance).


MEMO TO 89-EX: FIX YOUR SHITTY SOUNDING AUDIO!! WE CAN HARDLY HEAR THE FRIGGIN' STATION! Thanks in advance.

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Bryce
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by Bryce » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:24 am

Unlimited medical and the lack of a fee schedule is a recipe for disaster.

Kind of sort of related.

I couldn't figure out why the insurance industry lobbied so hard for seat belt laws yet were relatively quiet on the helmet law repeal. Then it dawned on me. You don't have to pay medical costs on dead people.


If you have a really big butt, can you get away with doing things half-assed?

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craig11152
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by craig11152 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:40 am

Another sidebar is that as near as I can figure they have about 20+ billion dollars in the fund and they pay out less than 2 billion a year.
They claim they have liabilities in excess of 23 billion but those are long term, like a mortgage, not yearly.
Since they can adjust their rates yearly I don't understand why they need such a big reserve.


testing...testing...1...2...3...4

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TheForce
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by TheForce » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:54 am

I want the option to opt out. Why should our insurance dollars subsidize those very few who rely on this fund? I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future there is a mass exodus of people leaving this state as they did in Illinois. I'm betting most are tired of being taxed and fee'd to death while our neighbours in Indiana and Ohio fare much better.



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Otter Mii-kun
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by Otter Mii-kun » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:17 am

If this bullshit over our auto insurance doesn't stop anytime soon, then I suggest everybody should DEMAND that Sam Bernstein, Jay Trucks, Lee Steinberg, Mike Morse, Geoffery Feiger, and other "injury attorneys" that advertise all over TV be disbarred from practicing law. Since when is a simple rear-ending worth ~$1 million?

The 45+ cent gas tax hike is not needed either. Why do our politicians think that our taxes need to be like California's or Europe's? At this point, I don't give a shit if not raising our gas taxes means that every single road in our state, even I-75, I-69, I-94, and the like end up becoming gravel roads.

This "brain drain" youth flight (which eerily resembles the "white flight" out of Detroit and Flint, only on a statewide basis) will only accelerate, to the point where, in the next few decades, I wouldn't be surprised if Michigan ends up losing all but maybe one (at-large) or two congressional seats.

Plus, if other states allow caps on how much auto insurance can pay for medical care, why the hell can't Michigan? What's so different about our state that requires our auto insurance to provide unlimited medical payments? (It's just like how I can't see what's so different about our state that voters had to enshrine straight-ticket voting into our state constitution for all eternity.) I don't care if getting rid of the unlimited health coverage mandate or getting rid of the Catastrophic Claims Association means that every single injury attorney ends up bankrupt overnight.

At this point, it looks as if the only solution to our state's woes is to dissolve state government completely and divide the territory among neighboring states (the western half of the lower mitten can join Indiana, the eastern half, including Metro Detroit can become part of Ohio, and the UP can be annexed into Wisconsin.) What the HELL did people think they were getting when they voted in Whitmer, Benson, and Nessel? Did they really think they were going to be like Jim Blanchard, Richard Austin, and Frank Kelley (respectively)?



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MWmetalhead
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:15 am

The distinction our inept news media are failing to highlight is the fact the statutory MCCA premium is only a small fraction of the total compulsory insurance premium Michigan drivers are forced to pay.

The MCCA only pays medical care costs once a $555,000 threshold has been exceeded. Nearly all injury auto accidents result in costs far less than that figure, which mean they are the responsibility of your auto insurer (unless some other payment source is utilized).

It is the frequency and size of medical care claims that fall under that $555,000 threshold that are causing our auto insurance premiums to soar.

In Michigan - the average auto accident injury claim is $75,600. In New York and Florida, it's between $7,000 and $8,000 (these are the next two highest states in terms of average auto accident injury claim amount).

A FEE SCHEDULE is absolutely essential for reigning in these exorbitant claim amounts.

Hospitals, lawyers, etc. price gouge because they know all insured drivers in Michigan are required to carry unlimited Personal Injury Protection ("PIP") coverage. Why settle for $5,000 or $10,000 when you know you can claim $50,000 or $100,000 under Michigan law and the insurance company can hardly do a damn thing about it? As long as at least one driver is insured, our scuzzy medical care providers and scuzzy lawyers will have access that pot of gold.

In some no-fault states such as New Jersey, the statutory minimum amount of required coverage is a mere $15,000. In New Jersey, which has many poor & heavily minority zip codes just like Michigan, the average annual auto insurance premium is about $900/yr. cheaper than Michigan.

So, the second absolutely essential component of auto insurance reform is REPEALING the mandatory unlimited PIP coverage requirement. Reduce it to $10,000 or $15,000 per year. Hell, even $25,000 per year would work.

https://www.valuepenguin.com/personal-i ... rance#nogo

The third essential component is permitting auto insurance companies to require their customers to exhaust other available reimbursement options for medical care costs (and related costs such as lost wages, housekeeping, etc.) before permitting claims for such costs under the auto insurance policy.

The fourth essential component is this - make no fault OPTIONAL! That means if you opt out of no-fault and are then found to be at fault in an auto accident, your insurer will be obligated to pay zip, nada, zilch to you. This is a calculated risk each driver must decide for himself or herself. It will certainly reduce rates for the folks who sign up for this option.

If you adopt the above policy elements - those who keep no-fault and keep unlimited PIP coverage will probably still see at least a 25% premium reduction. Those who opt for lower levels of PIP coverage (but keep a no-fault version of PIP) could see a premium reduction of 40%. Those who opt for limited PIP protection that only kicks in if the other driver is at fault will likely see a premium reduction of 50%.

I also think the statutory MCCA fee should be part of vehicle registration, not insurance. I suspect fewer people break the law with regard to vehicle registration than insurance. Because the cost to maintain the solvency of the fund would be spread across more people, the cost paid per driver would diminish. With a FEE SCHEDULE in place, claims paid annually by the MCCA should decrease anyway, thereby making the statutory MCCA premium more affordable.


MEMO TO 89-EX: FIX YOUR SHITTY SOUNDING AUDIO!! WE CAN HARDLY HEAR THE FRIGGIN' STATION! Thanks in advance.

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TC Talks
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by TC Talks » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:39 am

I volunteer with a 59 year old woman who lives solely on her social security income. She was hit by a car who was making an illegal left turn and struck her while she was walking across a street. She spent a year in the hospital and in therapeutic recovery from her injuries.

If it weren't for the insurance pool she would be homeless right now. While I agree there are opportunities to abuse the system, a broad stroke fixed payout is not an answer for every victim of a car accident. Her expenses according to her caseworker we're about $470,000. Could they have accomplished the same level of care for less money? I have no idea. Have a bigger issue with the healthcare industry playing a shell game with all of its customers then with our insurance system covering catastrophic injury.

As for us dealing with the insurance company to pay for this trauma, I am pretty handy with paperwork and they worked very hard to frustrate the process. Once I had a friend of mine who is a personal injury lawyer contact them with his typical opening letter then they began to work with me immediately. Lawyers are not the problem.

I own 11 cars. Many are classic and will be exempt from this fee. But the five that will be assess this increase I see as the cost of owning a car. The concerns I see expressed here are from people who've never experienced the process of recovering from a car accident. While I have been lucky enough to never go through recovery, I could imagine a very scathing post for someone complaining about a system that has fixed payout leaving an accident victim with massive debt for something that was not their fault other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Whatever changes occur need to be thoughtful, but I'm telling you the problem is with the healthcare system not with the insurance pool.

Think about the whole of society not just yourself.


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zzand
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by zzand » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:30 am

TC Talks, a co-worker and friend was hit head on by a guy who crossed center line after nodding off behind the wheel. That was last August, he is still in a hospital, has been since being life flighted from the scene. He is still facing months there and then rehab after finally being released and sadly he will never be able to work again because of a brain injury. When I visit him, I see the man who he was still there but it is just below the surface and maybe will never come to the top again. It is sobering to say the least....and yes a personal injury attorney is working for them and since the other driver freely admitted guilt he is having an easy time of it. The other driver, FYI, broke an arm..

I worked with a guy who lives the near Michigan Wisconsin border who rented a P.O. Box in Wisconsin, had his mail sent there and moved banking there. He pays Wisconsin Insurance rates and has for years. Every Friday he drives the 30 minutes to check his mail and do banking, these days most of that is online. I am sure he is not the only person who does this.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:50 am

TC Talks - I think my proposal satisfies the parameters you set forth.

I agree 100% that the healthcare industry far & away is the biggest reason rates are outrageously high. This is why a fee schedule is an absolute necessity to fixing the system.

With regard to injury treatment & medical care itself, the MCCA only kicks in once the total bill exceeds $555,000. Amounts below that figure are covered by insurance. The mandate for unlimited PIP incentivizes healthcare providers to inflate their costs of care, which is part of the reason insurance companies push back so hard in some instances.

If you feel unlimited PIP is essential, that's cool. You as a consumer should definitely have a choice to purchase it. Those who don't feel it's essential should not be obligated by law to purchase it (other than a statutory mandatory minimum amount of coverage).

My proposal preserves ability to purchase unlimited coverage for those who feel it is a wise purchase, removes the mandate for those who desire to purchase lower levels of coverage, and lowers costs across the board for virtually everyone who currently purchases Michigan auto insurance.


MEMO TO 89-EX: FIX YOUR SHITTY SOUNDING AUDIO!! WE CAN HARDLY HEAR THE FRIGGIN' STATION! Thanks in advance.

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TheForce
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by TheForce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:34 am

MWmetalhead, I also believe this coverage should be optional. My thought is if this becomes optional, how will the insurance company be able to afford payouts that could last for years if they don't have a big enough of a pool of people paying into it? Another reason it should be optional is the majority of Michigainians will never, ever need this coverage, just a very few people would benefit from it.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by MWmetalhead » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:00 am

Don't worry about the insurance companies; the math works fine in pretty much every other state. Also, it isn't the insurance companies who want to stall true reform; it's the f*cking medical providers who are to blame.


MEMO TO 89-EX: FIX YOUR SHITTY SOUNDING AUDIO!! WE CAN HARDLY HEAR THE FRIGGIN' STATION! Thanks in advance.

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MWmetalhead
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Re: July 1st: Get ready to pay more for auto insurance

Post by MWmetalhead » Tue May 07, 2019 1:41 pm

Kudos to the State Senate for voting overwhelmingly in favor of No Fault reform today!

Now, the package moves to the House.

While the proposal isn't perfect, it contains most of the key elements on my personal wish list.

There is no ability to opt out of no-fault, but there *is* an ability to completely remove PIP coverage if you have alternate means of payment available (i.e. employer sponsored health insurance, Medicare, etc.).

Also key - this legislation includes a fee schedule for medical costs! :) No more gouging by corporate health care systems!

Special kudos to the two brave Dems who crossed the aisle to vote with Republicans.

I hope Whitmer doesn't try to fuck this up.


MEMO TO 89-EX: FIX YOUR SHITTY SOUNDING AUDIO!! WE CAN HARDLY HEAR THE FRIGGIN' STATION! Thanks in advance.

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