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Separation of Church and State restored

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TC Talks
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by TC Talks » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:30 pm

What is the federal standard? Let's go with that. I really am not that concerned as it's the business of a pregnant woman.


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bmw
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:33 pm

craig11152 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:56 pm
craig11152 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:39 am
TC Talks wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:24 am
Life begins with a healthy delivery.
Just so I am clear because I truly don't want to misunderstand.
A woman could be in active labor at 40 weeks with, by available medical measure, a healthy baby/fetus/thing and you would be fine with an abortion?
I know you and me and others are fond of cherry picking responses but I really do want a clarification so I am not misinterpreting.
Well he's not denying any of what I said he supports, so I think my conclusion as to his stance is accurate. He seemed more offended at being accused of being an anti-Christian bigot than of supporting the discarding of unhealthy newborns.

Silence speaks volumes.



bmw
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:36 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:30 pm
Spare me your outrage heathen. I am anti-hypocrisy not anti-Christian. Religion in Evangelical Christianity is to a Chinese Buffett in Flint what Christianity is to dinner in Bejing. It's bastardized completely. So get off the high horse about attacks against it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_7:15
For the record I am not an evangelical. I will point out though that just over 1/4 of the US population identifies as such, so to call 80 million Americans "sheep" and accuse that many people of bastardizing a religion is indeed bigotry.



bmw
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:38 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:30 pm
What is the federal standard? Let's go with that. I really am not that concerned as it's the business of a pregnant woman.
So in your view, a pregnant woman bears absolutely no responsibility whatsoever for having engaged in the act that got her pregnant to begin with? Got it.

Oh, and since you support federal standards, I presume you're also against the illegal state legalization of marijuana.



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TC Talks
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by TC Talks » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:43 pm

BMW, we are speaking about women's rights. My opinions really don't matter. It isn't your business either.
bastardizing a religion is indeed bigotry.
so no more making fun of any belief correct? Because there are faith-based organizations that are 100% supportive of women's rights including abortion.

In that case, Nessel's actions are protecting religious freedom unlike the bigot bill schuette.


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bmw
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by bmw » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Please explain to me how discarding an already-born baby that is no longer inside of a mother has anything whatsoever to do with women's rights. I'll help you - it doesn't.

I'm just curious - in your opinion, what age must a child reach before a mother no longer has a right to kill it?



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Bryce
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by Bryce » Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:37 am

Using the logic I see written here, because I'm not a homeless person, I probably shouldn't intervene when I see a homeless person under a bridge, wrapped in blankets, in -13 cold. That is the business of the homeless person.

I guess you would call me pro-choice?


There sure isn't as much excitement, fawning, or adulation over our first orange president as there was over our first black one. Evidently, orange really isn't the new black.

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TC Talks
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by TC Talks » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:00 am

Bryce wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:37 am
Using the logic I see written here, because I'm not a homeless person, I probably shouldn't intervene when I see a homeless person under a bridge, wrapped in blankets, in -13 cold. That is the business of the homeless person.

I guess you would call me pro-choice?
Kind of apple to oranges given that Persons experiencing homelessness are living humans and fetuses are not by the definitions put forth by science. Honestly, the pro-life crowd seems to be the group who presses for the criminalization of persons living on the street, based on my experience with them.


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bmw
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by bmw » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:34 am

TC Talks wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:00 am
...Persons experiencing homelessness are living humans and fetuses are not by the definitions put forth by science...
That is nonsense if we're talking about late third-trimester abortions. I was born 6 weeks premature. Are you suggesting that for the first 6 weeks of my life that I was not a living human being? And if not, what is the difference between me existing inside or outside of the womb? I was the same collection of cells whether I lived inside or outside of the womb for those 6 weeks.

And by the way, the court in Roe v. Wade (you know - the case that pro-choice people treat as if it were handed down by God himself) found that states can pass legislation which puts the interests of the fetus above the interests of the mother at the point of viability - which the court found to be variable on a case by case basis, but generally beginning in the third trimester.

I've said before that I won't get into abortion debates as they pertain to first or second trimester abortions because debates on that are completely pointless. But supporting allowing abortions of fetuses well beyond the point of viability, right up until the end of a healthy 9-month pregnancy is an extreme position to hold.



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TC Talks
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by TC Talks » Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:57 pm

I'm not advocating anything except supporting science. If science advocates some of the conditions you outline, I am fine with it. None of this reflects how I might act, I support each person's right to make any decision that feel is right for them. Think of it as "stay out of my body".

Keep in mind, you have stated separating children from parents and caging them is totally fine. That's worse than any abortion.


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audiophile
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by audiophile » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:58 pm

The answer to when life begins can be easily answered by asking when life ends.


Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

NS8401
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by NS8401 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:49 pm

audiophile wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:58 pm
The answer to when life begins can be easily answered by asking when life ends.
That may be the biggest ambiguity I’ve ever read... try that again...



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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by stopnswop2 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:29 am

audiophile wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:58 pm
The answer to when life begins can be easily answered by asking when life ends.
Pardon me...


Music is my life.

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Bryce
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by Bryce » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:05 am

Audiophile made an excellent point. At what point is a person declared as dead?


There sure isn't as much excitement, fawning, or adulation over our first orange president as there was over our first black one. Evidently, orange really isn't the new black.

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TC Talks
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Re: Separation of Church and State restored

Post by TC Talks » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:05 am

Bryce wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:05 am
Audiophile made an excellent point. At what point is a person declared as dead?
They often terminate life when there is no cognitive function. The key part is that you're usually declared dead when you are outside somebody else's body.

A better question would be: when do they issue birth certificates?


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