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The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

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The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:37 pm

What an absurd circus....

The Secretary of Education is far from being the most important cabinet position. Yet the media and many on the left (even some centrists) were painting an apocalyptic picture in the event Mrs. Devos received confirmation (which, of course, did finally occur).

The fact of the matter is this:
-Far more education decisions get made on the local & state level than the federal level
-Mrs. Devos will put even more power into the hands of local and state officals
-Mrs. Devos will help create a level playing field with regard to disbursement of federal education dollars
-There is a chance our 1940's/1950's era primary & secondary education system will see some sorely needed reforms (or at least the topic will finally receive a fair hearing)

Grouping students into grade levels based on AGE with almost no consideration given toward ABILITY is so outrageously stupid, I don't even know where to begin.

The local & national media, and for that matter - many voters, could give two shits about local school board races, yet they whipped themselves into a total frenzy regarding this nomination.

Instead of placing scrutiny on Devos, how about instead doing the following?
-Placing scrutiny on the qualifications and decisions of your local school board members
-Examining the track record of your superintendent
-Demanding audits of the finances of your local school district
-Reviewing the educational materials used in the classroom (my school district often used textbooks that were 20 years old)
-Thoroughly reviewing the background of teachers and coaches (far too many of whom are total weirdos) and requiring that this information be made public

I would submit that many holders of seats on local school boards (especially in low to middle income communities) are unfit for such positions.

I would also submit that too many school administrators - both public and private - are misanthropic individuals who should have no involvement with school-age children. This is not a new phenomenon, btw. I would say the schools were far worse 40, 50 or 60 years ago than today.

I find it very strange that the media has spent far more time discussing Mrs. Devos than Jeff Sessions. His nomination should be of much greater concern, IMO.



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Bryce » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:07 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:What an absurd circus....

The Secretary of Education is far from being the most important cabinet position. Yet the media and many on the left (even some centrists) were painting an apocalyptic picture in the event Mrs. Devos received confirmation (which, of course, did finally occur).

I find it very strange that the media has spent far more time discussing Mrs. Devos than Jeff Sessions. His nomination should be of much greater concern, IMO.
Simple answer...

The political power of the NEA.

A little more nuanced, the left HATES women and minorities that are conservative. They must tear them down as the whole idea flies in the face of their narrative.


New York and Chicago were all in with respect to their sanctuary status — until they were hit with the challenge of actually providing sanctuary. In other words, typical liberal hypocrisy.

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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by audiophile » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:54 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:What an absurd circus....

The Secretary of Education is far from being the most important cabinet position. Yet the media and many on the left (even some centrists) were painting an apocalyptic picture in the event Mrs. Devos received confirmation (which, of course, did finally occur).

The fact of the matter is this:
-Far more education decisions get made on the local & state level than the federal level
-Mrs. Devos will put even more power into the hands of local and state officals
-Mrs. Devos will help create a level playing field with regard to disbursement of federal education dollars
-There is a chance our 1940's/1950's era primary & secondary education system will see some sorely needed reforms (or at least the topic will finally receive a fair hearing)

Grouping students into grade levels based on AGE with almost no consideration given toward ABILITY is so outrageously stupid, I don't even know where to begin.

The local & national media, and for that matter - many voters, could give two shits about local school board races, yet they whipped themselves into a total frenzy regarding this nomination.

Instead of placing scrutiny on Devos, how about instead doing the following?
-Placing scrutiny on the qualifications and decisions of your local school board members
-Examining the track record of your superintendent
-Demanding audits of the finances of your local school district
-Reviewing the educational materials used in the classroom (my school district often used textbooks that were 20 years old)
-Thoroughly reviewing the background of teachers and coaches (far too many of whom are total weirdos) and requiring that this information be made public

I would submit that many holders of seats on local school boards (especially in low to middle income communities) are unfit for such positions.

I would also submit that too many school administrators - both public and private - are misanthropic individuals who should have no involvement with school-age children. This is not a new phenomenon, btw. I would say the schools were far worse 40, 50 or 60 years ago than today.

I find it very strange that the media has spent far more time discussing Mrs. Devos than Jeff Sessions. His nomination should be of much greater concern, IMO.
Excellent post, it's basically a local issue as you stated.


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by audiophile » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:00 pm

Grouping students into grade levels based on AGE with almost no consideration given toward ABILITY is so outrageously stupid, I don't even know where to begin.
Good point. Where I went to school now has a large amount of immigrants. Basically the whole school is being dragged down by this.
Last edited by audiophile on Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:01 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:What an absurd circus....

The Secretary of Education is far from being the most important cabinet position. Yet the media and many on the left (even some centrists) were painting an apocalyptic picture in the event Mrs. Devos received confirmation (which, of course, did finally occur).

The fact of the matter is this:
-Far more education decisions get made on the local & state level than the federal level
-Mrs. Devos will put even more power into the hands of local and state officals
-Mrs. Devos will help create a level playing field with regard to disbursement of federal education dollars
-There is a chance our 1940's/1950's era primary & secondary education system will see some sorely needed reforms (or at least the topic will finally receive a fair hearing)

Grouping students into grade levels based on AGE with almost no consideration given toward ABILITY is so outrageously stupid, I don't even know where to begin.

The local & national media, and for that matter - many voters, could give two shits about local school board races, yet they whipped themselves into a total frenzy regarding this nomination.

Instead of placing scrutiny on Devos, how about instead doing the following?
-Placing scrutiny on the qualifications and decisions of your local school board members
-Examining the track record of your superintendent
-Demanding audits of the finances of your local school district
-Reviewing the educational materials used in the classroom (my school district often used textbooks that were 20 years old)
-Thoroughly reviewing the background of teachers and coaches (far too many of whom are total weirdos) and requiring that this information be made public

I would submit that many holders of seats on local school boards (especially in low to middle income communities) are unfit for such positions.

I would also submit that too many school administrators - both public and private - are misanthropic individuals who should have no involvement with school-age children. This is not a new phenomenon, btw. I would say the schools were far worse 40, 50 or 60 years ago than today.

I find it very strange that the media has spent far more time discussing Mrs. Devos than Jeff Sessions. His nomination should be of much greater concern, IMO.
So you would group them based on what exactly? Ability? If so then what about those who simply aren't able to get out of 6th grade? At what age do you just give up and create another poor hopeless person who has no hope whatsoever of depending on himself... isn't that the opposite of what conservatives champion? Don't they want dependence on the state reduced?

Grouping based on age is a far simpler system than ability which is simply fraught with peril and likely wouldn't work very well... it essentially would pick winners and losers... isn't that another supposedly liberal thing you folks are against?



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by audiophile » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:05 pm

What about the time you're wasting on other students that are bored out their minds? I say graduate those early then.


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:28 pm

audiophile wrote:What about the time you're wasting on other students that are bored out their minds? I say graduate those early then.
Those options already exist... how do you think a 13 year old went to Harvard?



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by tapeisrolling » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:48 pm

This reminds me of the Blueberry Story.....
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9TUrHMZMno[/youtube]

The story starts 2 minutes in if your short on time.



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Calvert DeForest » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:17 am

I never understood why we have a federal Department of Education. I think education is better handled at the state level.

And don't get me started on Common Core! I have personal experience working with my kids on this, especially in math. They've figured out how to take relatively simple problem-solving concepts and make them complicated. I often find myself in need of a Tylenol after assisting with homework projects (and this is third-grade stuff).


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:06 am

Calvert DeForest wrote:I never understood why we have a federal Department of Education. I think education is better handled at the state level.

And don't get me started on Common Core! I have personal experience working with my kids on this, especially in math. They've figured out how to take relatively simple problem-solving concepts and make them complicated. I often find myself in need of a Tylenol after assisting with homework projects (and this is third-grade stuff).
Just understand common core is NOT a federal thing... it's the result of a collaboration of states... I have seen the work as well and agree the problems are overly complex... for some reason people are thinking this is some sort of non-local thing when it's totally local... the reason they are doing it is to have a uniform curriculum across the states that have signed on... it's not a bad idea but it's been poorly executed... having all the kids on the same page would be great because it would simplify things immensely by instituting a statewide common curriculum... I don't see why there is so much uproar over the concept.. I get why there is uproar over the execution...



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Calvert DeForest » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:05 am

NS8401 wrote:Just understand common core is NOT a federal thing... it's the result of a collaboration of states... I have seen the work as well and agree the problems are overly complex... for some reason people are thinking this is some sort of non-local thing when it's totally local... the reason they are doing it is to have a uniform curriculum across the states that have signed on... it's not a bad idea but it's been poorly executed... having all the kids on the same page would be great because it would simplify things immensely by instituting a statewide common curriculum... I don't see why there is so much uproar over the concept.. I get why there is uproar over the execution...
While you are technically correct, Common Core is tied to certain avenues of federal funding for state education, and any time the feds dangle the money carrot, it has an influence on states' decisions to comply. Much like the mandatory 21 drinking age or the old 55 MPH speed limits. Sure, states could choose to opt out, but when they're used to getting those federal bucks to maintain roads, how many do you think would? It's hard to call something a "voluntary program" when there are purse strings attached.

Execution is the backbone of the curriculum. Whoever wrote these overly-complicated concepts for solving equations needs to go back to school and learn the basics. Even the teachers I have talked to mostly agree that it's ridiculous, but they have no choice in the matter. That's what they're required to teach.

Call me old-school (or just old), but I was taught that the objective was to solve a problem in the quickest possible time with the least possible steps. I've actually timed my kids solving math problems with the methods I learned versus Common Core methods, and it's no contest. Even the mental math methods I've learned and developed beat out Common Core on the stopwatch every time.

I also take issue with standardized testing. Kids are unique....they are not "standardized", so why should testing be? There are always going to be kids who excel in different areas and have different strengths. I'm not saying that their weak areas should be ignored, but standardizing everything across the board curbs a teacher's ability to focus and build on a student's individual strengths. Kinda like the dogma that every student must spend four or more years in university if they have any hope to succeed in life (and we wonder why high-paying jobs in skilled trades are going unfilled).


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by craig11152 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:04 pm

NS8401 wrote: So you would group them based on what exactly? Ability?
That seems to be what he is suggesting. It sounds like a good idea to me
NS8401 wrote: If so then what about those who simply aren't able to get out of 6th grade?
What do we do now? In some cases we move them along until they graduate without the proper skills.

NS8401 wrote: Grouping based on age is a far simpler system than ability...
You got that right but simple and effective are not tied to the hip

NS8401 wrote:.....ability which is simply fraught with peril and likely wouldn't work very well... it essentially would pick winners and losers
Only if you see kids who aren't as smart as losers. Maybe it would work. Maybe if you put kids together with similar learning abilities they would feel more comfortable and do better. Maybe they wouldn't mentally check out because they know they aren't one of the smartest kids in class. Maybe if they were in a class of kids with similar learning skills they would thrive.


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Calvert DeForest » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:37 pm

Excellent points! We've managed to segregate skill sets into categories of "smart" and "dumb". Society looks down upon skilled workers who are considered not to be as "valuable" as someone with a Master's or P.h.D. Yet I challenge anyone to make such an assertion when their lights go out, their toilet won't flush or their car won't start. We need people in these professions. Many require specialized training beyond or in lieu of a formal college education, and since the professionals in these fields are in high demand, a lot of these jobs pay a decent coin for the right people.

I'm by no means against higher education, but the idea that it is absolutely necessary for lifetime success is a meme that has been pushed for decades. Seems now we have multitudes of college graduates straddled with student debt, pursuing jobs that don't exist in over-saturated fields that may not have interested them in the first place, because a counselor or advisor assured them that's where the money and prestige is. Personally, I couldn't care less if my son decides he wants to be a rocket scientist, dig ditches or snake drains for a living. As long as he can support himself, contribute to society and go to work happy, he's won the battle.


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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by Deleted User 8570 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:19 pm

Calvert DeForest wrote:Excellent points! We've managed to segregate skill sets into categories of "smart" and "dumb". Society looks down upon skilled workers who are considered not to be as "valuable" as someone with a Master's or P.h.D. Yet I challenge anyone to make such an assertion when their lights go out, their toilet won't flush or their car won't start. We need people in these professions. Many require specialized training beyond or in lieu of a formal college education, and since the professionals in these fields are in high demand, a lot of these jobs pay a decent coin for the right people.

I'm by no means against higher education, but the idea that it is absolutely necessary for lifetime success is a meme that has been pushed for decades. Seems now we have multitudes of college graduates straddled with student debt, pursuing jobs that don't exist in over-saturated fields that may not have interested them in the first place, because a counselor or advisor assured them that's where the money and prestige is. Personally, I couldn't care less if my son decides he wants to be a rocket scientist, dig ditches or snake drains for a living. As long as he can support himself, contribute to society and go to work happy, he's won the battle.
And so doing all this would require a massive societal shift and restructuring... it's far easier to armchair it as easy then it is to execute it... then you have to execute it correctly... this seems like it'll only muddy the waters not make them clearer...

The German system is a good model... they make the kids pick a career at the end of 8th grade and high school is chosen by what vocational they choose, then they are following their interests and not what somebody thinks they should care about...



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Re: The media's (and liberals') obsession over Betsy Devos

Post by craig11152 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:14 pm

NS8401 wrote:And so doing all this would require a massive societal shift and restructuring... it's far easier to armchair it as easy then it is to execute it...
No question. It will probably never happen. But that doesn't mean the theory isn't a good one. So to me a question is "if you could wave a magic wand and have that system be the norm would it be a better norm than what we have?" I'm not talking about implementing it rather if it was how we always did it would underachieving kids do better or worse than the system we created? I picture it working better for reasons I sited above.


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