"There's no Middle Ground" ???

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Oh the humanity! Forgive me if I don’t find a hell of a lot wrong with the “Biden/Bernie manifesto”.

It looks to me like a blueprint on how to remove personal liberty, individual property rights, local government control and the right to free association. You know, the basic principles on which our country was founded.

Balderdash. If you believe that then I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you. But you’ve shown no bottom on believing anything you’re told yet so why stop now?

[Bryce]

But you’ve shown no bottom on believing anything you’re told yet so why stop now?

So I shouldn't believe they're serious about their manifesto?

[bmw]

Just curious RT - if you were to take a guess, if we had a way of polling every single voting adult in this country, what percentage of them do you think would favor literally tearing up our US Constitution and starting from scratch?

[Mark Elliott]

I can't speak for BMW, although I maybe could. I'm not buying into fear mongering from the right. I'm just assuming that that the Democrat Party is taking the Biden/Sanders Manifesto seriously and they plan on implementing it.

Just glanced at this and will read it more later (can't find a Cliff Notes version, the only way I made it thru high school) but it seems well written and thought out and very progressive.

Just imagine if the Republicans/conservatives could produce a similar document, outlining their goals and objectives. Then we could all sit together and consider the merits of both.

Conservatism doesn't scare me. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and believe we must conserve our resources for their best use.
Liberalism doesn't scare me. If it liberal to believe that the poorest of us need our care and consideration, then call me a raging one.
Socialism doesn't scare me. We already have a socialist highway system, including the car insurance industry.
Capitalism doesn't scare me. Making money is a motivator and should always be available.
Freedom doesn't scare me. People should be free of government intrusion into their private lives and bodies.
Government doesn't scare me. It's a dangerous world out there - some folks want to kill us, some want to steal from us, others want us under their rule. We need a well funded well positioned apparatus to keep us safe and secure.

The right doesn't scare me. We are a proud and successful country and I'm very proud to be an American.
But the right attacking others by demonizing them scares me.
The left doesn't scare me. It's not easy for anarchists to make group decisions, and in many cases they just want to be able to do what they want. But the left attacking others by demonizing them does cause me a lot of angst.

Demagoguery scares me. One person doesn't not have all the answers.
Totalitarianism scares me. Autocrats scare me. Dictators scare me.

I should start another thread about the multi party system that seems to work well in other "democracies" including one that has basically controlled the virus.

Is there one open mind on this board?

[bmw]

If Totalitarianism scares you, then socialism should scare you as well. Socialists, and to a lesser extent, liberals, believe that the government knows best and that they can manage your life better than you can, and this mindset leads to an increasingly oppressive nanny state.

[Mark Elliott]

Depends on how you define the word.. and today we tend to define it based on our political proclivity.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling ... today.aspx

I believe that overall, private business and financial reward for effort and success is the proper economic system in a democracy. But we must also pool our resources to take care of certain matters like national defense, national travel (highways, airports) and protection (from white and blue collar criminals). That's my definition of socialism, maybe I should call it "democratic socialism". If you have another name for that let me know.

Anyone who believes that "government knows best and that they can manage your life better than you can" might be something other than my definition of "socialist".

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If Totalitarianism scares you, then socialism should scare you as well. Socialists, and to a lesser extent, liberals, believe that the government knows best and that they can manage your life better than you can, and this mindset leads to an increasingly oppressive nanny state.

That’s not what most liberals believe. Hate to break it to you.

[Rate This]

Just curious RT - if you were to take a guess, if we had a way of polling every single voting adult in this country, what percentage of them do you think would favor literally tearing up our US Constitution and starting from scratch?

Nobody is running around advocating tearing up the constitution so I won’t even entertain this one... it’s gonna be well under half. The country has been fundamentally changed at least 3 times... it happens roughly every 50-80 years...

[km1125]

Have you ever really listened to a liberal??

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Have you ever really listened to a liberal??

I am one. I come from a family of them. Most of my friends are liberals. I’ve met whackos on both sides who want to do weird things. But the vast majority of people on both sides do not want anything completely insane to happen. Liberals generally are no exception to that.

Can you say you’ve immersed yourself first hand in somewhere like Ann Arbor and befriended a whole bunch of liberal folks to see what makes them tick?

[Getoffmylawn]

I can't speak for BMW, although I maybe could. I'm not buying into fear mongering from the right. I'm just assuming that that the Democrat Party is taking the Biden/Sanders Manifesto seriously and they plan on implementing it.

Just glanced at this and will read it more later (can't find a Cliff Notes version, the only way I made it thru high school) but it seems well written and thought out and very progressive.

Just imagine if the Republicans/conservatives could produce a similar document, outlining their goals and objectives. Then we could all sit together and consider the merits of both.

Conservatism doesn't scare me. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and believe we must conserve our resources for their best use.
Liberalism doesn't scare me. If it liberal to believe that the poorest of us need our care and consideration, then call me a raging one.
Socialism doesn't scare me. We already have a socialist highway system, including the car insurance industry.
Capitalism doesn't scare me. Making money is a motivator and should always be available.
Freedom doesn't scare me. People should be free of government intrusion into their private lives and bodies.
Government doesn't scare me. It's a dangerous world out there - some folks want to kill us, some want to steal from us, others want us under their rule. We need a well funded well positioned apparatus to keep us safe and secure.

The right doesn't scare me. We are a proud and successful country and I'm very proud to be an American.
But the right attacking others by demonizing them scares me.
The left doesn't scare me. It's not easy for anarchists to make group decisions, and in many cases they just want to be able to do what they want. But the left attacking others by demonizing them does cause me a lot of angst.

Demagoguery scares me. One person doesn't not have all the answers.
Totalitarianism scares me. Autocrats scare me. Dictators scare me.

I should start another thread about the multi party system that seems to work well in other "democracies" including one that has basically controlled the virus.

Is there one open mind on this board?

Amen. There are plenty of people on both sides of this discussion who, for lack of a more eloquent description, just plain suck. Sadly, these are the people who get the most attention, and are the same ones that those who disagree with them base their opinions on.

I hate to break it to some of you, but not every Democrat sleeps with the communist manifesto under the pillows as they plot to forbid use of the word "God" anywhere, let every single immigrant who wants to come here with no questions asked and give them welfare fore life, take away all the guns, or destroy the traditional family.

By that same token, not every Republican is a racist, sexist, homophobic white male who wants rape victims to be forced to carry babies to term, invade every foreign country that has oil, and smoke Cuban cigars while they keep their wives in the kitchen making sandwiches.

Simply put, it's fine if we disagree. We can even disagree strongly. But this constant portrayal of the party you don't vote for as the source of all even does nothing to solve any problem.

[Bryce]

I hate to break it to some of you, but not every Democrat sleeps with the communist manifesto under the pillows as they plot to forbid use of the word "God" anywhere, let every single immigrant who wants to come here with no questions asked and give them welfare fore life, take away all the guns, or destroy the traditional family.

Then why do they continually support the policy and vote for people that do?

[Getoffmylawn]

I hate to break it to some of you, but not every Democrat sleeps with the communist manifesto under the pillows as they plot to forbid use of the word "God" anywhere, let every single immigrant who wants to come here with no questions asked and give them welfare fore life, take away all the guns, or destroy the traditional family.

Then why do they continually support the policy and vote for people that do?

And that's my point.

You can't claim the moral high ground by criticizing a stereotype of the other side and while simultaneously ignoring a similar criticism of your preferred party. A Biden supporter could have responded to my post the exact same way except for only quoting the part about negative Republican stereotypes. It would be just as weak of a position and I would respond to them in the same manner.

If we could all dial the Self-Righteous-O-Meter down from 10 to 3 or 4, there just might be some actual constructive dialogue in this thread instead of a continual back and forth over who sucks worse.

You'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath on that one.

[Bryce]

I hate to break it to some of you, but not every Democrat sleeps with the communist manifesto under the pillows as they plot to forbid use of the word "God" anywhere, let every single immigrant who wants to come here with no questions asked and give them welfare fore life, take away all the guns, or destroy the traditional family.

Then why do they continually support the policy and vote for people that do?

And that's my point.

You can't claim the moral high ground by criticizing a stereotype of the other side and while simultaneously ignoring a similar criticism of your preferred party.

It would be a very good point, but, I'm not talking about a "stereotype", I'm talking about actual candidates. For example lets look at one of the items you mentioned above.

take away all the guns

From the Biden campaign site:

As president, Biden will pursue legislation to regulate possession of existing assault weapons under the National Firearms Act.

Notice there is no definition on what exactly an assault weapon is nor what the regulation might be. Forgive me if I assume the worst from a man that publicly said police officers should shoot people in the legs or floated an idea to ban all guns that aren't "smart guns'. "Smart Guns" don't exist at this time, so in effect that would be all guns.

Then to top it all off, he has pledged to appoint Robert "Beto" O'rourke, who in a Presidential Debate promised to take away legally purchased rifles, as his "point man on gun control.

This isn't a "stereotypical" Democrat. This is Joe Biden.

[km1125]

Have you ever really listened to a liberal??

I am one. I come from a family of them. Most of my friends are liberals. I’ve met whackos on both sides who want to do weird things. But the vast majority of people on both sides do not want anything completely insane to happen. Liberals generally are no exception to that.

Can you say you’ve immersed yourself first hand in somewhere like Ann Arbor and befriended a whole bunch of liberal folks to see what makes them tick?

Yes, to the point that it's nauseating. I've worked for a couple companies where the majority were liberals. It gets pretty bad during an election cycle. I have immediate family members as well who are very liberal, and one served as the local head o the Democratic Party for a while.

ALL liberals are Democrats, but not all Democrats are liberals (but most are).

Apparently your definition of "insane" is divorced from reality.