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Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

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km1125
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by km1125 » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:33 am

Hilarious that you think I'm a "Walmart Wolverine"! If my only motivation in this case was tilting the scale in the UofM/MSU 'battle', I would easily be favoring the MSU side.

I would have MUCH more respect for ANY of the complainants if their motivation was awareness, education, and policy change at the University that might prevent future occurrences of any of the alleged actions. If their message was largely "I didn't know what to do then, but I do now, and you should learn you have options", or "I didn't want to say anything before, but if anyone is in this kind of situation now, then you have options", or "I am sorry I didn't come forward earlier when there could have actually been a case brought forward against the perpetrator and we could have proved there was wrongdoing. No one should wait as long as we/I did and we'd/I'd encourage anyone suffering the same fate to come forward"

But no. Silence... until big money is on the table.

AGAIN... there might be SOME folks who were legitimately abused and Anderson should have had to answer for that. He's gone now and nothing done now will make him answer for that. Based on everything I've heard so far (especially on this forum), I really don't think BO was ever told enough details to take action. He was probably told folks didn't like Anderson, or that they were uncomfortable with his practice, or even that they felt "weird" (or something like that), but never enough to give Bo (or anyone else) enough information that he believed a sexual assault actually took place once, much less "hundreds" of times.

Take the chance for a big payout away, and we'd never hear a peep more about this case or this issue.



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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:18 pm

The constant defense of Mr. Anderson is disgusting. The fact that the Michigan regents nor the MI president has apologized sincerely to the victims is disturbing beyond belief. If I don't hear more all my U-M stuff goes bye bye August 1st. I don't care to hear "But MSU did .......". This has nothing to do with MSU. I thought this university was better and obviously I thought incorrectly.


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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:08 pm

Define sincerity. What exactly should they have said publicly beyond what they did say?

https://regents.umich.edu/governance/an ... -anderson/

To me, there is no amount or choice of words that would successfully define a sincere apology for everyone. Maybe it's financial? John U. Bacon says they've offered $90 million to the victims, about $100,000 each but that's been rejected.

https://johnubacon.com/2021/06/dr-ander ... dont-know/

In cases like this, it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle and make such an egregious case of abuse go away and make everyone happy again. Especially when the people having to "fix" it had nothing to do whatsoever with what happened.


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Honeyman
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Honeyman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:17 am

Robert Faygo wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:08 pm
Define sincerity. What exactly should they have said publicly beyond what they did say?

https://regents.umich.edu/governance/an ... -anderson/

To me, there is no amount or choice of words that would successfully define a sincere apology for everyone. Maybe it's financial? John U. Bacon says they've offered $90 million to the victims, about $100,000 each but that's been rejected.

https://johnubacon.com/2021/06/dr-ander ... dont-know/

In cases like this, it's impossible to put the genie back in the bottle and make such an egregious case of abuse go away and make everyone happy again. Especially when the people having to "fix" it had nothing to do whatsoever with what happened.
This was a hand-picked doctor for the football team who was involved with athletics and managed to stay under wraps for 40 years abusing all kinds of athletes and people male and female who had to live with it the rest of their lives without resolution. The hoops coaches for 30 years knew. Then he got to retire with distinction from the school and we learned almost two decades after that nearly everyone knew at the time, from the AD's to multiple high level coaches or assistants, It was a locker room joke. It was reported. It was common knowledge at the school for decades yet there was constant inaction.

These men and women have had to live with this for 30-40 years, they've had to listen to Bo, Canham and whomever else they saw ignore them be adulated at every turn. You can tell it has nearly destroyed some of them. Some we don't know of may have already died or suffered life altering consequences as a result. It's sad all around, and why the "they're all dead" argument and reaction of the media shrugging it off is so insulting. These folks are alive and should be heard. If they could find just one 85 year old person to punish that knew for this, they should do it.


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Robert Faygo
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:01 pm

double post
Last edited by Robert Faygo on Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:02 pm

Only problem with your premise is that the vast majority (all?) of these victims didn't truly recognize they were sexual abuse victims until years later. Questioning a doctor's methods just wasn't a thing in the 70s and 80s when the doctor knew best. You laughed it off, or as Bo said, got tougher. Clearly the wrong answer in 2021 ... but not so much in 1976.

Putting a 2021 lens on things that happened 40-50 years ago is pretty easy to do. What's not so easy is holding people (other than the actual predator himself) responsible for things that didn't even have the same vocabulary then as we do now.

I believe 100% that the coaches knew about the exams. I also believe 100% those coaches were never taught what to do about it - or even that it was something that was wrong or to be questioned. We all have the benefit of awareness in 2021 that wasn't there in 1971 or 1978 or 1985 ... hell, even in 1992.

It's a piss poor comparison, but I feel the same way about the ownership of slaves when it comes to our Founding Fathers. From a 2021 lens, judging slave ownership is easy. It was clearly wrong. But do we hold someone responsible for what they did in 1780 when it was a societal norm?

Enlightenment is a powerful tool to correct and prevent wrongs. Enlightenment is dangerous when trying to force corrections to history.


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Honeyman
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Honeyman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:10 pm

Robert Faygo wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:02 pm
Only problem with your premise is that the vast majority (all?) of these victims didn't truly recognize they were sexual abuse victims until years later. Questioning a doctor's methods just wasn't a thing in the 70s and 80s when the doctor knew best. You laughed it off, or as Bo said, got tougher. Clearly the wrong answer in 2021 ... but not so much in 1976.

Putting a 2021 lens on things that happened 40-50 years ago is pretty easy to do. What's not so easy is holding people (other than the actual predator himself) responsible for things that didn't even have the same vocabulary then as we do now.

I believe 100% that the coaches knew about the exams. I also believe 100% those coaches were never taught what to do about it - or even that it was something that was wrong or to be questioned. We all have the benefit of awareness in 2021 that wasn't there in 1971 or 1978 or 1985 ... hell, even in 1992.

It's a piss poor comparison, but I feel the same way about the ownership of slaves when it comes to our Founding Fathers. From a 2021 lens, judging slave ownership is easy. It was clearly wrong. But do we hold someone responsible for what they did in 1780 when it was a societal norm?

Enlightenment is a powerful tool to correct and prevent wrongs. Enlightenment is dangerous when trying to force corrections to history.
“Every coach, every executive, every leader: They all know right from wrong. Even those Enron guys. When someone uncovers a scandal in their company, I don't think they can say, "I didn't know that was going on." They're just saying they're too dumb to do their job! And if they really are too dumb, then why are they getting paid millions of dollars to do it? They know what's going on.”

― Bo Schembechler, Bo's Lasting Lessons: The Legendary Coach Teaches the Timeless Fundamentals of Leadership


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Robert Faygo
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:53 pm

Right from wrong. Stealing money (Enron) - always wrong, which is what that quote addresses.

Prostrate and hernia examinations in a doctor's office? Yeah ... show me the manual that tells any of us right from wrong, especially the one that was published in the 60s - 70s - 80s.

I'm a 50-something male. I've had to turn my head and cough. I've had my elbows on the table. None of it was appreciated. None of it was comfortable. I'd prefer some other diagnostic tool in addition to my PSA. Was I abused -- I don't believe so, but I'm still waiting for someone to give me a definitive answer on that. Should I file a complaint against my GP?

Personally, I think it was short-sighted of Michigan to put up a statue and name a building for a football coach. Sure, he did some positive noteworthy things. Get rid of the statue, take the name off the building ... I could not care less. Statues and buildings named for sports figures are over the top for any of them. They aren't heroes to me. Burn your Michigan (or Michigan State or Penn State) gear. Doesn't matter to me.

Seriously ... what's the point of all this?

Hopefully making sure perps like Anderson don't ever get to do this kind of thing again? That should be the point, but I'm not sure it is. The cancel culture needs MORE! Make the victims WHOLE. How exactly can anyone do that? I guess it's money. Great ... taking away more from the kids that will go to school in the future and the programs that might help prevent something like this.

Moral righteousness? Does it make you feel better to know that you have stronger moral fiber in 2021 than Schembechler did in 1975? Good for you ... you have learned from the mistakes of others. Does anyone honestly think, that if Schembechler were alive today and a head coach he would handle this kind of thing the same way he did back then?

As you were. I understand your need to prove your superiority.


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Honeyman
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Honeyman » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:27 pm

Robert Faygo wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:53 pm
Right from wrong. Stealing money (Enron) - always wrong, which is what that quote addresses.

Prostrate and hernia examinations in a doctor's office? Yeah ... show me the manual that tells any of us right from wrong, especially the one that was published in the 60s - 70s - 80s.

I'm a 50-something male. I've had to turn my head and cough. I've had my elbows on the table. None of it was appreciated. None of it was comfortable. I'd prefer some other diagnostic tool in addition to my PSA. Was I abused -- I don't believe so, but I'm still waiting for someone to give me a definitive answer on that. Should I file a complaint against my GP?

Personally, I think it was short-sighted of Michigan to put up a statue and name a building for a football coach. Sure, he did some positive noteworthy things. Get rid of the statue, take the name off the building ... I could not care less. Statues and buildings named for sports figures are over the top for any of them. They aren't heroes to me. Burn your Michigan (or Michigan State or Penn State) gear. Doesn't matter to me.

Seriously ... what's the point of all this?

Hopefully making sure perps like Anderson don't ever get to do this kind of thing again? That should be the point, but I'm not sure it is. The cancel culture needs MORE! Make the victims WHOLE. How exactly can anyone do that? I guess it's money. Great ... taking away more from the kids that will go to school in the future and the programs that might help prevent something like this.

Moral righteousness? Does it make you feel better to know that you have stronger moral fiber in 2021 than Schembechler did in 1975? Good for you ... you have learned from the mistakes of others. Does anyone honestly think, that if Schembechler were alive today and a head coach he would handle this kind of thing the same way he did back then?

As you were. I understand your need to prove your superiority.
Your point of this taking place in a different era is certainly valid. Times were very different. However, I don't think people were exceedingly dumber back then. If a person came in for a migraine headache and the doctor insisted on putting his hand up the rectum, I would suggest that even a person born in the 50's could pretty much know for sure something was strongly amiss. The 60's were a different era, but we weren't using leeches to combat cancer.

And I see your point about money...it's always a factor and many times THE factor. However, when the whole Nassar situation hit MSU, I stopped my fairly substantial alumni contributions out of disgust. Was I hurting the kids and programs that had no fault in that horrible situation? I guess. But I simply could not support my beloved university at that time. UM is culpable here and should pay financially, whether the money goes to the victims, programs designed to combat that atrocities like this don't happen again, charity, ....

And I believe taking down the statue and renaming the football building simply is the right thing to do. It makes a necessary statement and could help to bring some closure to those who Bo was responsible for harming.


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Robert Faygo
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:34 pm

Totally agree about the statue and building. That is such an easy thing to do, and I concur that it would make a difference to the victims.

I still argue they never should have existed in the first place ... but, yeah getting rid of that symbolism needs to happen yesterday.


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Robert Faygo
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:47 pm

One more parting analogy from me regarding football coaches and concussions.

It's not exactly been a secret for decades that getting your bell rung is something that's ever ok. First were the leather helmets, then the plastic / resin, etc. Yet, until relatively very recently, no one has given a damn that players were coached to unload on other players leading with their heads.

Football coaches have quite literally prematurely ended the lives of countless football players everywhere. CTE and PCS are real things -- and yet they don't have the same kind of venom attached as this kind of scandal. We'll tear down statues and destroy legacies over something a third party did ... but just shrug our shoulders at what all of these coaches have done to their players regarding destroying their actual brains.

Why don't we have the same venom in regards to literally cracking skulls? In 25 years, will this issue ruin coaches / administrators the same way sexual abuse scandals are now?


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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Robert Faygo » Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:53 pm

Bump for Honeyman's 2022 crusade


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Honeyman
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Re: Michigan Slappy comes to Bo's Rescue

Post by Honeyman » Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:16 pm

:rollin Digging up posts from a year and a half ago.....congrats! You've actually stooped down to Matt-level!

I stand by everything I said in this post, btw. I guess you do too.


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