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What does 9 million dollars buy?

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Honeyman
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What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Honeyman » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:02 pm

Jim Harbaugh as underdog with UM:
2019 vs Alabama (Lost)
2019 vs Ohio State (Lost)
2019 at Penn State (Lost)
2019 at Wisconsin (Lost)
2017 vs Ohio State (Lost)
2017 at Wisconsin (Lost)
2017 at Penn State (Lost)
2016 at Ohio State (Lost)
2015 vs Ohio State (Lost)
2015 at Utah (Lost)
Last edited by Honeyman on Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Honeyman
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Re: Jim Harbaugh as underdog with UM

Post by Honeyman » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:09 pm

Last three bowl games:
Outscored 72-15 in the Second Half



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Honeyman
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Re: Jim Harbaugh as underdog with UM

Post by Honeyman » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:10 pm

Last 3 OSU games:
Outscored 120-50.



fuzzpower
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by fuzzpower » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:04 am

He should have been fired at the end of the 2018 season, but those in Ann Arbor are blind to his failures. One told me he shouldn’t be fired because he’s better than Brady Hoke. Not much of a bar.



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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm

Roughly $192K/win.
OTOH, it's taking about $900K/win for Jon Gruden for the Raiders, so I guess Harbaugh is a real bargain...



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Honeyman
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Honeyman » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:03 pm

Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm
Roughly $192K/win.
OTOH, it's taking about $900K/win for Jon Gruden for the Raiders, so I guess Harbaugh is a real bargain...
Huh? He gets 9 million a year and won 9 games. And obviously not big games. Indiana, Rutgers, Army (barely).

Thing is, who can Michigan get that is better? The fan base is stuck thinking they are still an elite program, and they haven't won shit in decades.

As a Spartan, I'm not real excited for the future, but we have had a couple BT championships recently, and been in the playoff. Michigan is a third place BT East team, and hasn't sniffed the playoff. Lose to OSU...er, ROUTED by OSU every....single....year. But they think they belong among the blue bloods because they pay their borderline psycho coach so much.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by MWmetalhead » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:13 pm

Harbaugh's record against ranked teams on the road or at neutral sites is abysmal.

Equally abysmal is his inability (to date) to develop a homegrown QB into a great player. Shea Patterson and Jake Rudock were both transfers!

The program seems stuck in neutral.

Instead of taking teams to wonderful vacations each year prior to the start of the season, why not make that a REWARD post-season if the team accomplishes something particularly good instead?


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Lester The Nightfly
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Lester The Nightfly » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:08 pm

Honeyman wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:03 pm
Lester The Nightfly wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm
Roughly $192K/win.
OTOH, it's taking about $900K/win for Jon Gruden for the Raiders, so I guess Harbaugh is a real bargain...
Huh? He gets 9 million a year and won 9 games. And obviously not big games. Indiana, Rutgers, Army (barely).

Thing is, who can Michigan get that is better? The fan base is stuck thinking they are still an elite program, and they haven't won shit in decades.

As a Spartan, I'm not real excited for the future, but we have had a couple BT championships recently, and been in the playoff. Michigan is a third place BT East team, and hasn't sniffed the playoff. Lose to OSU...er, ROUTED by OSU every....single....year. But they think they belong among the blue bloods because they pay their borderline psycho coach so much.
My bad, I was doing math as though his total contract was $9M divided by his current wins.
In light of that, YEAH, that's horrible.

Thanks for setting me straight.



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craig11152
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by craig11152 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:44 pm

As fans we like to think he was hired to....win the big one...get to Indy...win a championship....beat O/MSU
fill in whatever goal you think he hasn't reached.

But the reality is he was hired to keep the football machine a cash cow. To that end he is successful. 110,000 fans at games, remarkably high ratings when on TV and lightning rod that he is he keeps Michigan on people's radar. The athletic department is making money and the football team is the single biggest reason.
Think of it like the CEO of McDonald's. He is doing his job if he is selling a shitload of hamburgers. It doesn't matter that the hamburgers are mediocre as long as people buy them.
Jim Harbaugh is selling a shitload of mediocre hamburgers and the public is buying them.

Now if or when the cash flow slows due to a lack of key wins they will fire him without blinking.


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Matt
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Matt » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:36 am

I'll have a longer response later, but it's a bit annoying that a Sparty is so concerned about Michigan's coach, yet can't even quote the correct salary. Harbaugh makes $7.5M per year. With bonuses, he made $9M in 2015. Why no thread about Mark Dantonio (if he's not fired as a result of the Blackwell case) allegedly bringing back ALL of his assistants again? Will there be a re-direct this year too? Perhaps it is unrealistic to expect MSU to fire Dantonio when they haven't yet fired him and Tom Izzo for covering up a large number of criminal sexual assaults.



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Honeyman
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Honeyman » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:11 am

LOL....he got a bonus?!? What for....finishing third in the division? Point is, hes the most overpaid coach in the NCAA. He is 3rd behind Saban and Debo. With ZERO results.

I decided to start this thread when Harbaughs team was crushed AGAIN in a bowl game, after his 2nd half "adjustments" AGAIN failed misrerably. And because the majority of people on this board appear to be UM fans...though all are much more realistic than you, Matt. They can see hre's been an abject failure.

If you want to start a thread on Dantonio, I'm glad to comment. I will be much harsher about him than you about his recent performance. I would ask you to please make sure you cite facts and mot heresay if you discuss off-the-field issues.



fuzzpower
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by fuzzpower » Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:50 pm

Sad thing is most Michigan fans, especially in my area, will not criticize Harbaugh at all. They could be hosts on WTKA, it’s that bad. I am a realistic and honest fan. If Michigan or any other team I like in a sport sucks, I will criticize them.



Matt
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Matt » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:43 am

Again, I must object to being called unrealistic by a fan of a trash program who calls rampant allegations of sexual misconduct in the programs of Mark Dantonio and Tom Izzo "hearsay". It also hurts the case when you can't even quote the correct salary. Repeating lazy sports radio talk points is not "being realistic". I'll refute the lazy talking points first, and then I'll go into my assessment of where I think the program stands.

Lazy talking point 1: "Harbaugh hasn't won as an underdog on the road or neutral sites."

This is true of Michigan, not just Harbaugh. I think in the last 20 years, they've probably won 2 of these games and both were in the aughts: 2006 @ND and 2008 Citrus Bowl against Florida. I don't recall if they were favorites or underdogs in the Sugar Bowl where they were outplayed by VT but one on the leg of a rapist where the neanderthal coach at the time told the rapist to think of brunette girls when he was kicking. It is ultimately Harbaugh's task to turn that ugly trend around, but it is a long term Michigan issue, not a specific Harbaugh issue. I'll speak more to expectations in my assessment below.

Lazy talking point 2: "Harbaugh doesn't play QBs that he recruits out of high school."

This one is simply not true. The expectation when a new coach comes in is that you should be using a guy that the previous coach recruited for 2-3 years. In 2015, the stable was bare. Brady Hoke took only Russell Bellomy in 2011 recruiting and took NO QB in 2012, because he had "can't miss prospect" Shane Morris coming in 2013. Wilton Speight signed in 2014 and did start a full 1.25 seasons for Michigan and got hurt. In 2015, Harbaugh honored the commitment of Alex Malzone and brought in a project in Zach Gentry, who later switched to TE.

In 2015, he had RS freshman Wilton Speight, who wasn't ready and Shane Morris, who simply wasn't very good. That necessitated taking a look at grad transfer options, where Harbaugh was able to recruit Jake Rudock. He also took John O'Korn as a regular transfer to shore up depth. Rudock worked out pretty well, O'Korn... not so much.

In 2016, Michigan was in the hunt for two of the top QBs in the class: Shea Patterson and Brandon Peters. Patterson ended up at Ole Miss and Peters ended up at Michigan. Patterson transferred to Michigan and Peters transferred to Illinois. This particular fact is what irritates me when I hear the lazy talking point regarding not playing QBs that were recruited out of high school. Peters had his chance in 2017 and was a serviceable option, but he did not clearly establish himself as the starting QB going into 2018. Instead, he had to compete for a job that he hadn't won going into 2017. Shea Patterson, for all his faults, was clearly a better option.

In 2017, Michigan took Dylan McCaffrey; in 2018, Michigan took Joe Milton; in 2019, Michigan took Cade McNamara, and one of those three will likely be the starting QB when the 2020 season opens.

Lazy talking point 3: "The donor-funded trips around the world are a distraction."

The University of Michigan, depending on who you ask, is anywhere from the best to the third-best public institution in the country. These are STUDENT-Athletes at Michigan, and the time on the trip is not time they could be practicing. It does not materially cut into any offseason conditioning. At Michigan, the student piece of student-athlete is important. This is not me making a values statement of how I think it should be, but rather it is a factual statement that would be supported by Mark Schlissel and Warde Manuel. Michigan chooses not to be a "football factory", and whether one agrees with that decision or not, you have to acknowledge that reality.

Lazy talking point 4: "Harbaugh can't beat Ohio State."

Harbaugh hasn't beat Ohio State, but he should have in 2016 and could have in 2017 with even competent QB play. Ohio State is currently at a historically high level as a program, and you would think at some point they will come back to earth. It's worth noting that Dabo Swinney lost his first five games against SOUTH CAROLINA and Tom Osborne lost his first six games against Oklahoma. You could make the argument that both went on to have at least moderate success at Clemson and Nebraska after they got over the hump.

Assessment of the program

Jim Harbaugh took over a program that had been in a downward spiral for the decade prior to his arrival. In that time, Michigan had 3 losing seasons and 3 7 win seasons. 2006 and 2011 were outliers, in which Michigan won 11 games each season. 2011 was a mirage with a new coaching staff that emphasized defense (a needed change), but went away from the modern offense that Michigan signed up for in 2007 when it hired Rich Rodriguez. The results under Rodriguez were not good, so he was fired after 3 seasons, and Michigan elected to hire a man of low intelligence to bring back an offense that would have been awesome in the 1970s. After Brady Hoke flamed out by getting worse results each season, Jim Harbaugh was brought in to sift through the carnage.

Harbaugh immediately doubled the wins from the prior season in his first year, while mostly maintaining the archaic 1970s offense. The choice made sense at the time, given the makeup of the roster. Michigan was also 7 years removed from making a drastic offensive change without the correct talent in place to effectively execute the change. Harbaugh eventually decided to make the change back to running a modern spread offense in 2019, something that should have happened in 2017, if not 2016. The offensive transition costs would have been paid in season 2 or 3 rather than season 5. The offense appears to be set up for success for the future, provided that the QB play improves.

The defense under Harbaugh has been mostly excellent with some exceptions. He has one of the best defensive coordinators in the country, yet said defensive coordinator provides a lot of angst to the fanbase. The defensive system that Don Brown runs relies on getting pressure on the QB, and this year he had to adapt, because Michigan did not have playmakers at DT. There is a reasonable expectation that rising sophomores Chris HInton and Mazi Smith can develop into that role next year. Returning starter Carlo Kemp will hopefully improve as a fifth year guy as well. There will be some assistant coaching changes on the defense as safeties coach Chris Partridge has departed to become co-DC at Ole Miss and LB coach Anthony Campanile has an offer to become DC at Rutgers. Defensive assistants have came and gone many times over the last five seasons, with most getting promotional opportunities somewhere else. I would not expect Michigan to miss a beat.

In conclusion, Michigan is currently a better version of the 2001-2007 late Lloyd Carr era. They are a good, not yet great program that is looking to take the next step. Harbaugh was slow to make changes offensively which likely slowed the process by a year or two. While it is frustrating to have to keep saying "Next year could be the year", there is a favorable schedule and a very talented roster coming back for next season. I am cautiously optimistic that Harbaugh can have a sixth season similar to John Beilein's sixth season in 2012-2013.
Last edited by Matt on Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



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craig11152
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by craig11152 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:55 am

Well stated and well thought out Matt. I often think of you as a little too much of a Michigan "slappy" but this is very insightful.

I'd like to c&p this to my Facebook wall with your permission.


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Honeyman
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Re: What does 9 million dollars buy?

Post by Honeyman » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:27 am

You are so full of shit, it's unreal. I ask you to state facts on the off-the field issues you claim, and you reply with "It's not heresay, it's rampant allegations".

Your defense of Harbaugh losing to OSU is the past five years is laughable. "He should have in 2016 and could have in 2017 with even competent QB play." Duh! And who deserves the blame for that? But in your eyes, OSU played at a historically high level this period. Despite Purdue....PURDUE...bombed them in 2018, Iowa beat 'em in 2017, PSU in 2016, and MSU in 2015....on our way to the playoff. Harbaugh is 0-5 vs. #1 rival.

He has had five years to recruit/obtain/develop a QB, which was claimed to be his strength. He has failed.

He has had five years to beat OSU, he has failed.

He has had five years to win the BT East, he has failed.

Did you even go to Michigan? Your blind love reeks of a Walmart Wolverine. Others here who actually attended the university are much more accurate in their assessment. I've got a good friend who is beyond a UM die-hard. So much so that he visits Bo Schembechlers grave on his birthday...I am not making that up. He is very disappointed with what he has seen from Harbaugh. But he has come to realize that Michigan is not an elite football program anymore. You are still stuck in the past.



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