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Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:57 am
by Honeyman
Matt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:29 am
TC Talks wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:53 am
craig11152 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:40 am
Rate This wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:16 am
Did the phone become glued to her ear so she couldn’t hang up? It kind of reminds me of when someone says “why didn’t you call me?”… Not even blaming the victim here… but I mean you’re not exactly trapped on the phone.
I was thinking along the same lines. Especially given she is an advocate for these things. Wouldn't she have some "expertise" on how to avoid or remove oneself from problematic situations?
Allow me to put my tin foil hat on and ask if some of those rich alumni have buyers remorse on Tuckers contract. Maybe they hired a hit (wo)man to get out from under the obligation.
Was this appropriate even if consensual?
And I hope you immediately are not jumping in to vilify the victim here. MSU or "Michigan Rape University" seems to have an ongoing problem and the culture doesn't seem to have evolved.
I've been an MSU critic, but this is a low blow.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/sto ... 816082007/
Really? I think he's right on. I even agree with Hawk being named interim coach.
The recruits we will lose, the players who will portal out, the reputation of the program.....at this time when we have to compete with USC, Oregon, etc. along with the rest of the real Big Ten? We have become Rutgers.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:59 am
by TC Talks
It doesn't seem like the consultant would be party to breaking his contract. Shes going to suffer from reporting this.
Matt,
This was a high profile program designed to reduce sexual assault on campus. The consultant takes her work seriously, but it's hard yo believe that a safe cultural is in place when something like this happens. This coach was a vetted individual, and I bet the search committee skipped his history in this area.
I applaud MSU for their plans, and I hope this pushes leadership at all levels to double down on creating a cultre where the head coach understands yanking willie is a very bad idea.
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2021/msu- ... prevention
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:09 pm
by MWmetalhead
I think the "low blow" remark arises from Graham Couch of all people standing in judgment of Mel's moral character.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:32 pm
by Ben Zonia
A person responsible for trying to stop sexual misbehavior in campus athletics should have minimal involvement with a coach at MSU. We can talk all day about MSU being associated with sexual excess, from way back in the days when ornery MSU students would pack a car and go see movies at The Sceen Drive In, and beyond. But harassment and assault are also something athletes have gotten away with all over for decades all the way back to Junior High School. It seems that this woman should have steered completely clear of coaches who allegedly cover up such behavior.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:45 pm
by Matt
Honeyman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:57 am
Matt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 10:29 am
TC Talks wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:53 am
craig11152 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:40 am
Rate This wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 6:16 am
Did the phone become glued to her ear so she couldn’t hang up? It kind of reminds me of when someone says “why didn’t you call me?”… Not even blaming the victim here… but I mean you’re not exactly trapped on the phone.
I was thinking along the same lines. Especially given she is an advocate for these things. Wouldn't she have some "expertise" on how to avoid or remove oneself from problematic situations?
Allow me to put my tin foil hat on and ask if some of those rich alumni have buyers remorse on Tuckers contract. Maybe they hired a hit (wo)man to get out from under the obligation.
Was this appropriate even if consensual?
And I hope you immediately are not jumping in to vilify the victim here. MSU or "Michigan Rape University" seems to have an ongoing problem and the culture doesn't seem to have evolved.
I've been an MSU critic, but this is a low blow.
https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/sto ... 816082007/
Really? I think he's right on. I even agree with Hawk being named interim coach.
The recruits we will lose, the players who will portal out, the reputation of the program.....at this time when we have to compete with USC, Oregon, etc. along with the rest of the real Big Ten? We have become Rutgers.
My response was to TCT for the quoted comment. The Couch link was another point, which I should have made more clear. In response to the Tucker issue, it only becomes an MSU issue if they don't take some type of action.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:48 pm
by Matt
MWmetalhead wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:09 pm
I think the "low blow" remark arises from Graham Couch of all people standing in judgment of Mel's moral character.
As I explained in my response to HM, the low blow was about TCT's Rape State University comment. Graham Couch, who generally is an extreme sparty partisan, wrote an EXCELLENT column.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:52 pm
by TC Talks
Ben Zonia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:32 pm
A person responsible for trying to stop sexual misbehavior in campus athletics should have minimal involvement with a coach at MSU. We can talk all day about MSU being associated with sexual excess, from way back in the days when ornery MSU students would pack a car and go see movies at The Sceen Drive In, and beyond. But harassment and assault are also something athletes have gotten away with all over for decades all the way back to Junior High School. It seems that this woman should have steered completely clear of coaches who allegedly cover up such behavior.
Well, he admits doing it, probably because there is ample evidence. Are you suggesting sexual assault should continue because it has been going on forever?
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:53 pm
by Matt
TC Talks wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:59 am
It doesn't seem like the consultant would be party to breaking his contract. Shes going to suffer from reporting this.
Matt,
This was a high profile program designed to reduce sexual assault on campus. The consultant takes her work seriously, but it's hard yo believe that a safe cultural is in place when something like this happens. This coach was a vetted individual, and I bet the search committee skipped his history in this area.
I applaud MSU for their plans, and I hope this pushes leadership at all levels to double down on creating a cultre where the head coach understands yanking willie is a very bad idea.
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2021/msu- ... prevention
I am not an MSU or Tucker supporter, and I agree, he should have known better. We don't disagree on what happened being abhorrent, but let's at least give MSU a day or two to do the right thing before assigning ownership of this wanker's career kamikaze.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:06 pm
by Matt
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:09 pm
by Rate This
Could it be that she didn’t hang up the phone because she recorded the whole thing? Now that would be a bombshell tape…
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:20 pm
by Honeyman
The only question I have about her is why did she delete all her text messages with him.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:29 pm
by Ben Zonia
TC Talks wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:52 pm
Ben Zonia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:32 pm
A person responsible for trying to stop sexual misbehavior in campus athletics should have minimal involvement with a coach at MSU. We can talk all day about MSU being associated with sexual excess, from way back in the days when ornery MSU students would pack a car and go see movies at The Sceen Drive In, and beyond. But harassment and assault are also something athletes have gotten away with all over for decades all the way back to Junior High School. It seems that this woman should have steered completely clear of coaches who allegedly cover up such behavior.
Well, he admits doing it, probably because there is ample evidence. Are you suggesting sexual assault should continue because it has been going on forever?
Recently, a grandmother whose granddaughter was applying to colleges said she had been accepted at three colleges. One was MSU. She wanted to go to MSU. I told her grandmother, "party school" without going into details. If I felt that way, why would I steer her grandmother away from it? The granddaughter lives in a small town, and likely would be in over her head socially there.
Back in the 1970s, a classmate from a prominent (politically and at MSU) East Lansing family, who was a graduate classmate of mine, would drive over 100 miles every weekend to hit on the "nubile nymphs" five years younger who he said he saw on "Grand River". So the warning to the grandmother wasn't without context. And this guy WASN'T an athlete.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:31 pm
by TC Talks
Honeyman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:20 pm
The only question I have about her is why did she delete all her text messages with him.
There is no such thing as delete in this day and age.
Mel Tucker fan club: What do you think, inside MSU or a Walmart Wolverine type person?
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:33 pm
by TC Talks
Ben Zonia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:29 pm
TC Talks wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:52 pm
Ben Zonia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:32 pm
A person responsible for trying to stop sexual misbehavior in campus athletics should have minimal involvement with a coach at MSU. We can talk all day about MSU being associated with sexual excess, from way back in the days when ornery MSU students would pack a car and go see movies at The Sceen Drive In, and beyond. But harassment and assault are also something athletes have gotten away with all over for decades all the way back to Junior High School. It seems that this woman should have steered completely clear of coaches who allegedly cover up such behavior.
Well, he admits doing it, probably because there is ample evidence. Are you suggesting sexual assault should continue because it has been going on forever?
Recently, a grandmother whose granddaughter was applying to colleges said she had been accepted at three colleges. One was MSU. She wanted to go to MSU. I told her grandmother, "party school" without going into details. If I felt that way, why would I steer her grandmother away from it? The granddaughter lives in a small town, and likely would be in over her head socially there.
Back in the 1970s, a classmate from a prominent (politically and at MSU) East Lansing family, who was a graduate classmate of mine, would drive over 100 miles every weekend to hit on the "nubile nymphs" five years younger who he said he saw on "Grand River". So the warning to the grandmother wasn't without context. And this guy WASN'T an athlete.
What's your point? There will always be predators, my point is asking if you believe the University should be putting real weight behind the culture that makes it socially permissable.
Re: The death of MSU football
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:35 pm
by Matt
Honeyman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:20 pm
The only question I have about her is why did she delete all her text messages with him.
I think it is clear that both made terrible decisions. Obviously, Tucker has a lot more at stake, but let's hold off on fast tracking Brenda Tracy for sainthood. A suspension has to happen - at least until the process plays out.