Question for Turkey Top

[Round Six]

As talked about in other threads, Michigan is no longer Right To Work. Gotta join the union. Fine. I think it's a good thing.

So I have a couple of friends working at a couple of places that have until the middle of June to join the union.
One thing their company and union there is being accommodating about is exercising seniority, as far as preferred shift. But they're not going to pay every classification the same. Pay is still based on seniority, even if it's the same job.
Union rep is telling them graduated pay scale is in the contract.

When you represented, did the same job have different rates of pay based on years served? Or did everyone doing the same job make the same amount of money?

Every union job I've had, the pays the same. Someone working Day One as a millrite or welder or First Helper or whatever, makes the same amount as someone working 40 years on the same job.

Thanks.

[craig11152]

I would say there are no firm "rules" about what can go in to a CBA.
In our current CBA drivers hired before the ratification get paid more than drivers hired after the ratification.

[Rate This]

I would say there are no firm "rules" about what can go in to a CBA.
In our current CBA drivers hired before the ratification get paid more than drivers hired after the ratification.

If you’ve heard the story of how they got the Union and the insanity that was going on there before hand you’ll agree they deserve it for sticking it out.

[Turkeytop]

What you're referring to sounds like a classic two-tier wage structure. Everyone hired after a certain date works at a lower pay scale and never has an opportunity to progress to the higher rate.

That stuff is toxic and my Union refuses to even consider it. Employers don't even try it with us anymore because they know it's a recipe for a strike.

[Rate This]

What you're referring to sounds like a classic two-tier wage structure. Everyone hired after a certain date works at a lower pay scale and never has an opportunity to progress to the higher rate.

That stuff is toxic and my Union refuses to even consider it. Employers don't even try it with us anymore because they know it's a recipe for a strike.

That’s exactly what it is. That would be different than having a pay scale that rewards longevity and seniority though and I assume your union is all in on it taking years to get from starting wage to top pay?

[Turkeytop]

That’s exactly what it is. That would be different than having a pay scale that rewards longevity and seniority though and I assume your union is all in on it taking years to get from starting wage to top pay?

No, we aren't all in for that. I recall one instance where we reluctantly accepted a five year progression just to get to an agreement. After six months the employer gave up and went back to the old wage structure. They found out they couldn't hire people at what they were wanting to pay.

[Rate This]

That’s exactly what it is. That would be different than having a pay scale that rewards longevity and seniority though and I assume your union is all in on it taking years to get from starting wage to top pay?

No, we aren't all in for that. I recall one instance where we reluctantly accepted a five year progression just to get to an agreement. After six months the employer gave up and went back to the old wage structure. They found out they couldn't hire people at what they were wanting to pay.

So why should the guy that just showed up make the same as the 30 or 40 year guy? The seniority guy just got kicked in the groin.

[Turkeytop]

Normal progression period is 6 - 12 months. On a higher skilled job it could be up to two years. By that time the new guy should be performing as well as the 30 year guy. If he isn't, the Company should have got rid of him during his probationary period.

[Rate This]

Normal progression period is 6 - 12 months. On a higher skilled job it could be up to two years. By that time the new guy should be performing as well as the 30 year guy. If he isn't, the Company should have got rid of him during his probationary period.

With driving jobs I typically see 3-5 year progressions in the Union shops. My company does it at 2 years then at 5, 10, 15 etc. But they also give us 3-4% raises across all the levels in the progression every year so we end up going up pretty quick. They went to this after briefly having all wages the same for everybody. Then they decided that was unfair to the longer tenured workers. Their pay nearly doubled.

[Round Six]

So why should the guy that just showed up make the same as the 30 or 40 year guy? The seniority guy just got kicked in the groin.

I disagree. The older seniority gets their choice of which shift and days off. Choice of vacation weeks. Etc. That's a big part of being in a union.

The perks of exercising seniority. You bus drivers should be able to pick your route based on seniority, even if they all routes pay the same.

[Round Six]

What you're referring to sounds like a classic two-tier wage structure. Everyone hired after a certain date works at a lower pay scale and never has an opportunity to progress to the higher rate.

That stuff is toxic and my Union refuses to even consider it. Employers don't even try it with us anymore because they know it's a recipe for a strike.

The situation with my two friends is slightly different. Pay has always been based on seniority. Some were in the union. Some not. Before union membership was mandatory, union members got the pick of preferred shift and days off.

Now that everyone is in the union, representatives are telling the new members they have the right to bump based on their company seniority.

[Rate This]

So why should the guy that just showed up make the same as the 30 or 40 year guy? The seniority guy just got kicked in the groin.

I disagree. The older seniority gets their choice of which shift and days off. Choice of vacation weeks. Etc. That's a big part of being in a union.

The perks of exercising seniority. You bus drivers should be able to pick your route based on seniority, even if they all routes pay the same.

We bid three times a year (January/May/September) on runs. Higher seniority = first pick = better (more) hours. We also have an extra board where people are on call and do whatever work the company needs and often that pays more if you can deal with the wildly changing schedule.

Having a run gets you OT on days off… the board is catch as catch can on days off if they don’t need you and no OT. We are under the same rules as truckers so overtime exempt.

[tigerwings]

My current job has a 5 year progression to top pay. I started at the 2 year point, no one would take the jobs.

Benefits vary by hire date. Low senior have less benefits.

My wife worked in a 2 tier pay scale shop. Her top end pay was half of the older employees, then got cut again after a bankrupty. She quit the job when I transferred to Colorado.