Amtrak remains a joke

[MWmetalhead]

This is bad, even by Amtrak's piss poor standards!

https://www.mlive.com/news/2022/10/pass ... icago.html

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This is bad, even by Amtrak's piss poor standards!

https://www.mlive.com/news/2022/10/pass ... icago.html

It’s simply not that simple. They are having reliability issues with their Siemens made locomotives. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin DOT’s were the first to buy them and they are a disaster. They are registered to Illinois DOT so they may actually own them. It’s a Midwest partnership at at any rate. Amtrak is getting over a hundred for their fleet as well. Hopefully they have improved.

Between this and the bus it’s 6 of 1 and a half a dozen of the other so I can speak to the real logistical problems being stuck somewhere because of a failure. What exactly would you suggest they do to fix the problem they were having on the train in the moment? Mechanical help is hours away and doesn’t grow on trees. Equipment is in Chicago and can’t just rush out to you. It doesn’t work that way. Good luck finding a bustitution to get your passengers to Chicago… you need several buses to do that and most companies are strapped for drivers so they can’t do that sort of work. You might find someone hours away.

Honestly coupling the trains together and trying to make it to Chicago was the best they could do. It sounds like the equipment simply was not cooperative for whatever reason. Then some asshole had to have a medical problem. Then the federal hours of service laws are absolute. You stop literally wherever you run out of hours. It’s the same on the bus. I run out of drive time and I stop wherever I am. On the railroad it’s referred to as going dead. And I can do paperwork at least. They can’t even do that. Once they are at the limit they literally can’t lift a finger. “But can’t they have somebody ready to get on it whereever they might go dead?” you ask… well that depends… is their a rested crew qualified to operate over that piece of track? You have to know every inch of that territory be certified and pass a knowledge test on it.

I assume you want some sort of immediate solution like this was a restaurant or a retail store. It doesn’t work that way. When something like this gets going there is no quick solution and no easy answer. And all of that is what comes immediately to mind. Not to mention whatever realities we don’t know about. That’s just the nature of the beast.

Oh and the best part. The folks who jumped off were trespassing at that point and Amtrak would have had no liability had they been hit by a freight train. Where they were bailing off at that would be extremely easy to do. Same goes for the freeway. Someone gets whacked by a semi that’s their problem.

[MotorCityRadioFreak]

When it's Amtrak v Greyhound, what incentive is there to invest? It's like watching South Carolina State play the Citadel.

[craig11152]

It’s simply not that simple. They are having reliability issues with their Siemens made locomotives. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin DOT’s were the first to buy them and they are a disaster. They are registered to Illinois DOT so they may actually own them. It’s a Midwest partnership at at any rate. Amtrak is getting over a hundred for their fleet as well. Hopefully they have improved.

Between this and the bus it’s 6 of 1 and a half a dozen of the other so I can speak to the real logistical problems being stuck somewhere because of a failure. What exactly would you suggest they do to fix the problem they were having on the train in the moment? Mechanical help is hours away and doesn’t grow on trees. Equipment is in Chicago and can’t just rush out to you. It doesn’t work that way. Good luck finding a bustitution to get your passengers to Chicago… you need several buses to do that and most companies are strapped for drivers so they can’t do that sort of work. You might find someone hours away.

Honestly coupling the trains together and trying to make it to Chicago was the best they could do. It sounds like the equipment simply was not cooperative for whatever reason. Then some asshole had to have a medical problem. Then the federal hours of service laws are absolute. You stop literally wherever you run out of hours. It’s the same on the bus. I run out of drive time and I stop wherever I am. On the railroad it’s referred to as going dead. And I can do paperwork at least. They can’t even do that. Once they are at the limit they literally can’t lift a finger. “But can’t they have somebody ready to get on it whereever they might go dead?” you ask… well that depends… is their a rested crew qualified to operate over that piece of track? You have to know every inch of that territory be certified and pass a knowledge test on it.

I assume you want some sort of immediate solution like this was a restaurant or a retail store. It doesn’t work that way. When something like this gets going there is no quick solution and no easy answer. And all of that is what comes immediately to mind. Not to mention whatever realities we don’t know about. That’s just the nature of the beast.

Oh and the best part. The folks who jumped off were trespassing at that point and Amtrak would have had no liability had they been hit by a freight train. Where they were bailing off at that would be extremely easy to do. Same goes for the freeway. Someone gets whacked by a semi that’s their problem.

Thank you for the post. Very informative.

[craig11152]

For more than a year my wife took the train Ann Arbor to Chicago almost monthly.
She took the mid morning train on Fridays and returned on the late train Sunday.
Other than the late train occasionally being 20-60 minutes late she never had serious issues.


Sidebar:
On the upside this never happens on a plane. They just fall out of the sky and everyone dies.

[km1125]

I had not heard about the Siemens issues but if those are really that prevalent than executives within AMTRAK or the various DOT systems should be demanding that the vendor provide dual engines until they can get the problem sorted out.

And as to the "hours worked", that's a fixable problem too. Need to lean on the regulators and legislators to come up with a better solution. That's absurd that it wastes EVERYBODY's time and resources to comply with those kind of hard-and-fast rules.

[Chrocket87]

I’ve only taken Amtrak once. It was about six years ago when my wife and I took a four hour journey from Boston to NYC on vacation (neither of us will ever drive in either of those cities) and it was an enjoyable experience. We’re considering using Amtrak on a trip through the Pacific Northwest in the next year or two.

But the story you post is an absolute nightmare. I’d definitely think twice about using it again if it happened to me.

[TC Talks]

And as to the "hours worked", that's a fixable problem too. Need to lean on the regulators and legislators to come up with a better solution. That's absurd that it wastes EVERYBODY's time and resources to comply with those kind of hard-and-fast rules.

As a semi-professional passenger, I am firmly behind concrete limits for pilots conductors and anyone who's transporting a lot of passengers.

Mistakes happen most often when someone is exhausted and been pushed to work longer than they should safely.

The biggest problem Amtrak faces these days is the shift that the freight industry has made by running longer trains that can't be parked on sidings. This has fouled the smooth operation because they no longer are using the rail system the way it was designed. Since Amtrak is only a guest on freight lines in most cases they get delayed much more often than they used to. I'm a fan of nationalizing rail lines like we nationalize the air space. Let the federal government manage the rails and let the railroads operate on the roads.

[MWmetalhead]

The biggest problem Amtrak faces these days is the shift that the freight industry has made by running longer trains that can't be parked on sidings. This has fouled the smooth operation because they no longer are using the rail system the way it was designed. Since Amtrak is only a guest on freight lines in most cases they get delayed much more often than they used to.

I completely agree that greater regulation of railway space needs to occur.

It’s simply not that simple. They are having reliability issues with their Siemens made locomotives. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin DOT’s were the first to buy them and they are a disaster. They are registered to Illinois DOT so they may actually own them. It’s a Midwest partnership at at any rate. Amtrak is getting over a hundred for their fleet as well. Hopefully they have improved.

I think the passengers who were stuck for hours upon hours don't care so much about the "why" or "how." Also, the issues were not solely engine related. Did you read the MLive article?

The experience was mental & emotional torment for some of the passengers:

“We’re feeling like we can’t stay on this train anymore. We’re getting no information from Amtrak. Again, we’re cold, hungry, people need to use the bathroom. It smells awful. And a percentage of people are having acute anxiety symptoms and screaming,” he said.

I will never - ever - EVER take an Amtrak train anywhere, and that's despite the fact I live only two or three miles from the nearest Amtrak station!

The train should've been de-boarded in either Ann Arbor or Jackson, and the passengers should've been taken to Chicago via charter buses.

[Rate This]

The biggest problem Amtrak faces these days is the shift that the freight industry has made by running longer trains that can't be parked on sidings. This has fouled the smooth operation because they no longer are using the rail system the way it was designed. Since Amtrak is only a guest on freight lines in most cases they get delayed much more often than they used to.

I completely agree that greater regulation of railway space needs to occur.

It’s simply not that simple. They are having reliability issues with their Siemens made locomotives. Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin DOT’s were the first to buy them and they are a disaster. They are registered to Illinois DOT so they may actually own them. It’s a Midwest partnership at at any rate. Amtrak is getting over a hundred for their fleet as well. Hopefully they have improved.

I think the passengers who were stuck for hours upon hours don't care so much about the "why" or "how." Also, the issues were not solely engine related. Did you read the MLive article?

The experience was mental & emotional torment for some of the passengers:

“We’re feeling like we can’t stay on this train anymore. We’re getting no information from Amtrak. Again, we’re cold, hungry, people need to use the bathroom. It smells awful. And a percentage of people are having acute anxiety symptoms and screaming,” he said.

I will never - ever - EVER take an Amtrak train anywhere, and that's despite the fact I live only two or three miles from the nearest Amtrak station!

The train should've been de-boarded in either Ann Arbor or Jackson, and the passengers should've been taken to Chicago via charter buses.

Yes, I read the article. The issues were engine related and equipment related, then they were stuck for a medical emergency, then the crew ran out of hours. The toilet issue… see the engine not working. No electricity = no flush. Even the article said that. The food issue… they carry enough for a 5 hour trip not one lasting as long as that one did so they ran out of food basically. The person claiming they only got a bag of peanuts or whatever is an idiot that didn’t go to the cafe car when that option was still available. Then they ran into a crew time issue. I’m here to tell you that forcing them to go beyond their 12 hours is extremely dangerous in a job as stressful and tiring as that one. The rules regarding hours of service are written in blood.

They DID try to use the other train to power both sets in Chelsea. They wouldn’t link up for some reason. So they had to tow the other one dead.

The charter buses… I don’t know a single bus company that can spare the number of buses that were needed to transport all those passengers to Chicago. The companies are so short of drivers they have to call around to each other to cover their own trips. You simply cannot get 10 buses immediately on short notice in todays environment. Even if they could you’d see a 2-3 hour delay MINIMUM in Jackson. Ann Arbor would not have been an option. The issues started west of there and there was no viable way to get the train back to Ann Arbor and keep the other train moving.

Keep not knowing how this works… it’s fun to respond to. You keep assuming things… this is one area where that is a bad plan indeed.

As for the mentally distressed passengers… some people are just going to freak out. They freak out when I’m 20 minutes late despite a train blocking the road, a slow down on the freeway and a difficult passenger to deal with as if the times are absolute or something. I feel fairly bad for someone who goes into a full blown panic attack while safely on a stopped train. Screaming? That’s absolute insanity.

[MWmetalhead]

Keep not knowing how this works… it’s fun to respond to. You keep assuming things… this is one area where that is a bad plan indeed.

I know enough to understand it works like a gigantic pile of horseshit.

[km1125]

Keep not knowing how this works… it’s fun to respond to. You keep assuming things… this is one area where that is a bad plan indeed.

I know enough to understand it works like a gigantic pile of horseshit.

Where's the "LIKE" button??

Oh, here it is!!

[Rate This]

Keep not knowing how this works… it’s fun to respond to. You keep assuming things… this is one area where that is a bad plan indeed.

I know enough to understand it works like a gigantic pile of horseshit.

Not gonna get an argument from me. It’s underfunded.

But the flip side of that is… drum roll please… shit happens.

[MWmetalhead]

Thanks for the "like" km1125.

[audiophile]

So, a conductor sitting still on broken down train counts toward running hours? This is dumb that train stops mid tracks.