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Trains from AA to Traverse City?

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km1125
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Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by km1125 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:20 am

Ran across this article when I was looking for an update to an old project that was supposed to bring passenger traffic between Brighton/Howell and Ann Arbor.

Didn't know they were working on this:
Passenger Rail Connects Michigan
CONNECTING PETOSKEY AND TRAVERSE CITY TO ANN ARBOR BY TRAIN
There’s widespread interest in establishing passenger rail service to northwest Michigan. It would provide much needed transportation options for travelers—including the roughly 90,000 students along the line, boost downtown economies, and solidify Michigan as a leader in a new era of travel. Revitalizing train service between Traverse City and Ann Arbor is a unique opportunity for Michigan because the state owns the tracks, much of the line is in good shape, and there's already tremendous public support. Groundwork has received dozens of support letters from communities and civic groups along the line, and we’ve raised funds to advance a major study on the project, a study that was released in 2018. Preliminary cost and market data look promising, and we were excited to share it with the public. Please take a few minutes to learn more about the Ann Arbor to Traverse City railroad in the video and full report download, also check out A2TC.org.
...
More here: https://www.groundworkcenter.org/projec ... arbor.html
Is Ann Arbor-Traverse City Train Plan Still On Track?
By Craig Manning | Nov. 8, 2020
A project aimed at revitalizing passenger rail in northern Michigan is still on track. For years, Traverse City’s Groundwork Center for Resilient Communities has been working as part of a steering committee to reestablish passenger train service from Traverse City and to Ann Arbor/Detroit. The project, dubbed A2TC, hit a snag this year due to COVID-19, but is still very much alive, according to Groundwork Center Executive Director Hans Voss.

The initial plan, Voss says, was to use 2020 as a chance to start running special event -- or “excursion” --trains to ignite word-of-mouth. Early ideas included running excursion trains for popular Traverse City tourist draws, including the National Cherry Festival and peak fall color. The global pandemic effectively derailed those plans. ...
More here: https://www.traverseticker.com/news/is- ... -on-track/



Rate This
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Rate This » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:47 pm

km1125 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:20 am
Ran across this article when I was looking for an update to an old project that was supposed to bring passenger traffic between Brighton/Howell and Ann Arbor.

Didn't know they were working on this:
Passenger Rail Connects Michigan
CONNECTING PETOSKEY AND TRAVERSE CITY TO ANN ARBOR BY TRAIN
There’s widespread interest in establishing passenger rail service to northwest Michigan. It would provide much needed transportation options for travelers—including the roughly 90,000 students along the line, boost downtown economies, and solidify Michigan as a leader in a new era of travel. Revitalizing train service between Traverse City and Ann Arbor is a unique opportunity for Michigan because the state owns the tracks, much of the line is in good shape, and there's already tremendous public support. Groundwork has received dozens of support letters from communities and civic groups along the line, and we’ve raised funds to advance a major study on the project, a study that was released in 2018. Preliminary cost and market data look promising, and we were excited to share it with the public. Please take a few minutes to learn more about the Ann Arbor to Traverse City railroad in the video and full report download, also check out A2TC.org.
...
More here: https://www.groundworkcenter.org/projec ... arbor.html
Is Ann Arbor-Traverse City Train Plan Still On Track?
By Craig Manning | Nov. 8, 2020
A project aimed at revitalizing passenger rail in northern Michigan is still on track. For years, Traverse City’s Groundwork Center for Resilient Communities has been working as part of a steering committee to reestablish passenger train service from Traverse City and to Ann Arbor/Detroit. The project, dubbed A2TC, hit a snag this year due to COVID-19, but is still very much alive, according to Groundwork Center Executive Director Hans Voss.

The initial plan, Voss says, was to use 2020 as a chance to start running special event -- or “excursion” --trains to ignite word-of-mouth. Early ideas included running excursion trains for popular Traverse City tourist draws, including the National Cherry Festival and peak fall color. The global pandemic effectively derailed those plans. ...
More here: https://www.traverseticker.com/news/is- ... -on-track/
I like rail quite a bit... but this isn’t gonna work a bit.



fuzzpower
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by fuzzpower » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:16 pm

This has failure written all over it.



Mike Oxlong
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Mike Oxlong » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:06 pm

fuzzpower wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:16 pm
This has failure written all over it.
Been pondering this since I seen this thread earlier. Would there be enough riders to justify? Or would it be a mostly empty money pit?

I did some googling. Appears you can take a bus from A-squared to Traverse by way of Kalamazoo. 6 1/2 hours. So how many folks are on that bus each day? Is it packed out? Or is the bus from TC to A2 almost as empty as Smart bus 275 from Southland to Tel-Twelve?

Sometimes I wonder about this urgency for rail. They built the Q-Line when the Woodward bus has 10 people on it. They want to run rail service from downtown Detroit to Metro Airport when hardly anyone is on the Michigan Avenue bus. This stuff ain't cheap to build. Without a doubt, there will be a millage or other sort of tax involved.

People in Michigan like to drive. We all have cars. It isn't like out east where even the affluent would rather catch a ride instead of drive. Like Rate This says, it's not going to work.
Last edited by Mike Oxlong on Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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TC Talks
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by TC Talks » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:12 pm

Some of my friends have already gone on a test run. You folks haven't spent much time around a resort community have you?

Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car. Until it exists you never know its potential but I've seen some of the projections and I believe them to be fairly accurate.

Just remember bus riders aren't Traverse City visitors.


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MotorCityRadioFreak
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by MotorCityRadioFreak » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:30 am

Matt can go visit TCT now. :rollin

Personally, I hope Harbaugh takes the first train out of AA.


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kager
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by kager » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:01 am

A solution in search of a problem. "Fix the Dang Rails!"

Love the idea myself, but - unless da schknob is correct, and gas is outlawed - this looks to be something more driven by novelty / nostalgia than a viable business plan. Subsidy City. It would be interesting to know how much real $$$ is being invested in this vs. pot farms by the 'expert' mouthpiece.

It will "solidify Michigan as a leader in a new era of travel" - and, of course - Tom Hanks will be the conductor.


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MWmetalhead
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by MWmetalhead » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:33 am

Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car.
Many visitors to Traverse City are from Michigan.

Visitors to those two resort towns in Colorado come from all over the country if not the world.

Bad comparison.


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craig11152
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by craig11152 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:15 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:33 am
Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car.
Many visitors to Traverse City are from Michigan.

Visitors to those two resort towns in Colorado come from all over the country if not the world.

Bad comparison.
Not to mention he left out how they do arrive.... probably by plane. Then the get in a car. An Uber or Taxi and they are there to ski.
The problem with trains is they are linear with only frequency as a variation. To be useful they need enough people along the route willing to drive to a train station. Ann Arbor arguably has way less than 100,000 people if you subtract students. Most of those students, if they get on a train its the Wolverine to Chicago.


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Turkeytop
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:00 am

Except for the subway, I've never ridden on a train.


During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies. Does anyone know if there is anything planned when this one ends?

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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by kager » Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:43 am

Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:00 am
Except for the subway, I've never ridden on a train.
My wife & I jumped the border & took the train round trip from Sarnia to Toronta on our modest honeymoon back in the late 80's. Did same trip 10 years later with friends. It was a comfortable, fairly economical way to get to our hotel in the city without the need for a car, cab, or to even go above ground once we arrived there.

It certainly wasn't the fastest way to get there, but we were on a budget (wasn't getting rich in radio!) & quite OK with a slow ride. Plus, we got to see a lot out the window from a rather unique vantage point (sans all the distractions of cell phones, ipads, or electronic enroute entertainment options).

Probably went right through your back yard in both directions... :blink


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TC Talks
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by TC Talks » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:10 am

MWmetalhead wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:33 am
Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car.
Many visitors to Traverse City are from Michigan.

Visitors to those two resort towns in Colorado come from all over the country if not the world.

Bad comparison.
Your assessment is not correct. 65% come from out of state. Petoskey gets all the people from Michigan.

In 5 years Traverse City will have eliminated much of the private parking. You are looking at this from yesterday and not tomorrow. Gen Y and Z don't like cars.

You must not realize how behind Detroit is with public transportation. You don't have to understand or accept it, we don't care. We have the most wineries, breweries and cideries per capita in the country. These aren't for old people, and young people use the shuttle vans. The train will work, and they will add Detroit and DTW.


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Rate This
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Rate This » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:29 am

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:10 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:33 am
Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car.
Many visitors to Traverse City are from Michigan.

Visitors to those two resort towns in Colorado come from all over the country if not the world.

Bad comparison.
Your assessment is not correct. 65% come from out of state. Petoskey gets all the people from Michigan.

In 5 years Traverse City will have eliminated much of the private parking. You are looking at this from yesterday and not tomorrow. Gen Y and Z don't like cars.

You must not realize how behind Detroit is with public transportation. You don't have to understand or accept it, we don't care. We have the most wineries, breweries and cideries per capita in the country. These aren't for old people, and young people use the shuttle vans. The train will work, and they will add Detroit and DTW.
The will not add DTW.



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Turkeytop
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Turkeytop » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:05 pm

kager wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:43 am
Turkeytop wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:00 am
Except for the subway, I've never ridden on a train.
My wife & I jumped the border & took the train round trip from Sarnia to Toronta on our modest honeymoon back in the late 80's. Did same trip 10 years later with friends. It was a comfortable, fairly economical way to get to our hotel in the city without the need for a car, cab, or to even go above ground once we arrived there.

It certainly wasn't the fastest way to get there, but we were on a budget (wasn't getting rich in radio!) & quite OK with a slow ride. Plus, we got to see a lot out the window from a rather unique vantage point (sans all the distractions of cell phones, ipads, or electronic enroute entertainment options).

Probably went right through your back yard in both directions... :blink
In the late 80s we lived about 140 miles north of here. But if you made the trip today, I would probably hear you go by. That main line passes very close by our home.

Image
http://london.marknmel.com/albums/Rail/ ... .sized.jpg


During the middle ages they celebrated the end of the plague with wine and orgies. Does anyone know if there is anything planned when this one ends?

Mike Oxlong
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Re: Trains from AA to Traverse City?

Post by Mike Oxlong » Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:48 pm

TC Talks wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:10 am
MWmetalhead wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:33 am
Only 22% of visitors to Vail and Aspen arrive by car.
Many visitors to Traverse City are from Michigan.

Visitors to those two resort towns in Colorado come from all over the country if not the world.

Bad comparison.
Your assessment is not correct. 65% come from out of state. Petoskey gets all the people from Michigan.

In 5 years Traverse City will have eliminated much of the private parking. You are looking at this from yesterday and not tomorrow. Gen Y and Z don't like cars.

You must not realize how behind Detroit is with public transportation. You don't have to understand or accept it, we don't care. We have the most wineries, breweries and cideries per capita in the country. These aren't for old people, and young people use the shuttle vans. The train will work, and they will add Detroit and DTW.
I'm not going to say you're incorrect. But I go to TC about 3 times a year during the warmer months. I sure don't see many out of state plates. Maybe I'm not in the right spot.

But I must comment on Traverse City eliminating private parking. So? If the civic leaders want everyone to take public transit, then let them pay for the doggone train. Not quite sure why regional decisions in your neck of the woods means the rest of the state has to get into our wallet. Let's be honest. There is no way a train is going to be running from SE Michigan to the 231 without a millage or something getting taxed or something like that. Not going to happen.

You are right. The 231 has the most wineries, breweries and cideries per capita in the country. But I'm wagering a vast majority of those are not actually in Traverse City. You're including the wineries, breweries and cideries from Northport to Manistee. From Frankfort to Cadillac. And of course Petoskey. Yes or No? So why would I come into the city, where I can't find a place to park, when I can park and stay and spend money elsewhere that has great wineries, breweries and cideries.

And as far as Detroit behind behind on public transportation. Has it crossed your mind the vast majority of us down here in the 313 and 734 and 810 and 586 don't WANT to use public transportation? We like to ride by ourselves to work. And that goes for Gen W, X, Y and Z. We like the solitude of a nice solo ride. It's the Motor City. We like to drive. The only people down here that wanted the Q-Line was millionaires and billionaires that rode it once when it opened for a photo op.



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