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List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

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Ben Zonia
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List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by Ben Zonia » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:31 pm

Interference to Aeronautical Communications being reviewed.

DTW and FNT in Michigan. ORD (Hub) near Michigan.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files ... Buffer.pdf


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MWmetalhead
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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:14 am

I thought most airport communications occurred in the 108 MHz to 136 MHz band? Has that changed?

5G wireless communications occur across multiple different segments of bandwidth with a very wide variation of frequency ranges. Does the buffer affect all 5G spectrum or only portions of it?

My childhood home frequently had air traffic flying overhead or nearly overhead, often on approach to GRR. Believe it or not, I used to receive periodic interference from aircraft while listening to FM radio on a boombox. Strong local signals would never succumb to it, but weaker ones (such as WSNX) sometimes would.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by Ben Zonia » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:08 am

I was looking at the radios in a K Mart, the 9/27 runway's length Northeast of FNT. While I was there, one of the radios was interrupted by voice communications from an airplane or airport. The image of 108-136 MHz is 86.6-114.6 MHz on a radio with a 10.7 MHz IF. So it could be anywhere in the FM Band. The oscillator from an FM Radio ranges from 98.7 to 118.7 MHz, which it why it can interfere with Aeronautical radio communications. This is why you aren't supposed to listen to FM radios on an airplane.


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km1125
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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by km1125 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:11 pm

MWmetalhead wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:14 am
I thought most airport communications occurred in the 108 MHz to 136 MHz band? Has that changed?

5G wireless communications occur across multiple different segments of bandwidth with a very wide variation of frequency ranges. Does the buffer affect all 5G spectrum or only portions of it?

My childhood home frequently had air traffic flying overhead or nearly overhead, often on approach to GRR. Believe it or not, I used to receive periodic interference from aircraft while listening to FM radio on a boombox. Strong local signals would never succumb to it, but weaker ones (such as WSNX) sometimes would.
It's not the audio communications they're worried about.

It's the 3.7 to 4.4 GHz area. Part of this is allocated to 5G carriers (3.7 to 3.98) and part is used by the radar altimeters for aircraft (4.2 to 4.2 GHz). It sounds like some of the radar altimeters are affected when the 5G systems are running in close proximity and using the 3.7 to 3.98 spectrum. The radar altimeter signals are also used on some aircraft (787s included) to trigger the engine and braking system to transition into a "landing mode" and that potentially could be affected as well.



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MWmetalhead
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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by MWmetalhead » Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:32 pm

Great explanations; thank you both for the info!



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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by k8jd » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:57 pm

At first I thought Homeland security was going to try to ban the use of cellphones in or near airports !!!!
There is lots of other radio comms outside of the direct airport ATC comms (108-136 mHz) on vhf and uhf and 800-900 mHz for other business operating on or near aiprort property !! LOTS of it.
Been-there-done-that work on those radio systems...



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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by km1125 » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm

From a pilot-friend who stumbled on this in a discussion about why the USA situation is different than, say, Europe:


Image



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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by Circle Seven » Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:42 pm

km1125 wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:29 pm
From a pilot-friend who stumbled on this in a discussion about why the USA situation is different than, say, Europe:


Image
I'm surprised 5G (or any cell) transmitters are that high in output wattage. Am I mistaken believing that the devices they communicate with are no more than 3W depending on proximity?



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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by audiophile » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:23 pm

5G signals at 3.9 GHz are severely attenuated by anything.


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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by audiophile » Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:54 pm



Ask not what your country can do FOR you; ask what they are about to do TO YOU!!

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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by k8jd » Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:21 pm

[

Image
[/quote]

I'm surprised 5G (or any cell) transmitters are that high in output wattage. Am I mistaken believing that the devices they communicate with are no more than 3W depending on proximity?
[/quote]

The wattage listed is probably max E.R.P. where the highly directional antenna has a LOT of GAIN in a particular direction and that multiplies the transmitter wattage that reaches the antenna feedpoint. Say if I have 10 w output (-3dB feedline loss) and the antenna gain is 20 dB, the E.R.P . in the favored direction or plane would be 500 W !



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Re: List Of Airports Requiring 5G Buffer Zone

Post by WOHO » Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:49 pm

The graph I saw on TV basically showed that NONE of these services had any kind of a decent FILTER to keep their signal in their own band, since 5G is the last to the party, they should be forced to have a narrow cavity filter to keep their signal the hell out of the aircraft altimeters. Likewise, some 5G is blowing into SiriusXM units when in close proximity to their 30'-40' little mini-towers. My SXM will read "NO SIGNAL" until I get a block away from it. Again, I think that the incumbents should be protected and the heavy filtering is the responsibility of the new 5G offenders. Also, is the reason broadcast radio lost their network satellite band is also for 5G? And we lost 1/3 of the GD TV band? Seems like too high of a price to pay for a service that not all of us are going to use, unless they decide to drop 3G and 4G/LTE and force customers into 5G or nothing? I'd like to say nothing. Screw the cellphone companies...their damn 3W 'AMPS' analog cellphones had spectacular quality, used what, a 30KHz bandwidth? Damn they sounded good in 1993.



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