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Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

The technical side of broadcasting. Think IBOC is a sham? Talk about it here! How about HDTV? Post DX reports here as well.
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Ben Zonia
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Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by Ben Zonia » Wed May 26, 2021 9:46 am

WFAS White Plains, NY has gone full bore digital on 1230 as of two days ago. I wonder if anyone has noticed interference on 1220, 1230, and 1240 on it.

There would be a simple solution. Require them to put up a DA and send it to the fish in the ocean. Just as many life forms that can tune in.


"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

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WOHO
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by WOHO » Wed May 26, 2021 10:53 am

Not, In-Band On Channel and extra, but full-bore digital that only 3% of us can hear? Are they using a whole 30 KHz bandwidth swatch, or limited down to just +/-10KHz, or worse?



k8jd
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by k8jd » Wed May 26, 2021 11:53 am

I thought it would be nice to have AM/HD reception in the house but when I set up the JVC HD auto radio in the house all I get on AM is trash and hash from the DIGI TV cable, from power lines, and neighbors solar charger !
I only can hear the strongest local signals and NO HD/Stereo.
It works fine on FM. with the old auto antenna in the room.
I tried mounting the auto radio antenna on the outsdie of the house with a 12 ft Auto radio extenson (that high Z coax with a real thin center wire). and got beytter FM range but still hammered with AM hash. Will try it with a longer counterpoise wire hanging down a but not too hopefull.
Has anyone experienced successful use of AM HD/Stereo inside the house ?
I had great AM DX using an indoor car radio in the 60's , but that was before the highspeed DSL and cable TV !!!
Your Thoughts ???



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WOHO
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by WOHO » Thu May 27, 2021 11:13 am

K8JD, even my wired LAN spits out RF in the 2-meter band, as well as hash from switching power supply when using an internet radio. Almost a no win scenario.
For AM I have to use an in the attic zigzagged 40m 1/2 diople with a 4:1 balun. I too use a GM UX-1 car radio to tune CFCO in AM Stereo, but I've had to actually wire a Sony 'remote bar AM antenna' to the auto Motorola plug and then set a loop antenna (RS/Aiwa/Select-A-Tune). I'm sure there's an impedance mismatch there, but it works okay.



k8jd
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by k8jd » Fri May 28, 2021 3:17 pm

I guess I will have to get some 2x4s out of the garage and build a 50 turn loop with a tuning capacitor I can play with next.



paul8539
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by paul8539 » Sat May 29, 2021 5:10 pm

I though 1230 was a 'graveyard' frequency. Low power. We should not be able to get White Plains here in Michigan.



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by Ben Zonia » Sat May 29, 2021 10:13 pm

If it's at full power digital, it will have all of it's power in the digital signal, which will spread out over a wide band of frequencies. When WABC was using digital, the digital signal had much lower power than the full analog power. It interfered with WJR, even during critical hours. They turned it off. You could also easily hear the analog station on 1660, WJDM, Elizabeth, NJ when it was just 1000 watts Night. I'd say the proof is in the pudding. Turn on 1230 and adjacent channels and I strongly suspect you will hear it at least part of the time. Sounds like white noise. And it will interfere with scores of stations. Send it into the Ocean with a DA. A three tower binomial 1:2:1 cardioid pattern would probably work. Almost nobody will be able to tune it in. Just a nuisance. And remember their translators are NOT stations. They are Class D. Back then they did a study on WABC and WJR and it turned a Clear Channel into the equivalent of a 14 mV/m NIF, about like WDTW and WOKY.


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Turkeytop
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by Turkeytop » Sat May 29, 2021 10:57 pm

It's messing up CFAJ 1220 from St Catharines ON. in the Niagara area.


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SolarMax
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by SolarMax » Mon May 31, 2021 12:03 am

Ben Zonia wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:13 pm
[...]If it's at full power digital, it will have all of it's power in the digital signal, which will spread out over a wide band of frequencies. [...]
You seem to be making an apples-to-oranges comparison between Hybrid aka IBOC (MA-1) and full digital (MA-3).
From this article in RadioWorld:
"MA1’s digital carriers also require three times more bandwidth than the analog signal, so they create more adjacent channel interference.
...
MA3’s spectral efficiency provides two major benefits. First, MA3 protects the listening experience for first and second adjacent stations because the narrower bandwidth means less “slop” onto their signals, which is a longstanding problem with MA1, particularly after sunset.
"



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Ben Zonia
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by Ben Zonia » Mon May 31, 2021 9:18 am

Be that as it may. (I'll believe it when I personally witness less interference on 1220 and 1240). And on 1230, we'll see what it adds to the noise already there, and whether it affects the NIF of the 175 odd 1230s, although high. You still have ~0 receivers. Most of the New York message boards say they are just doing this as an experiment. Most think it will fail.


"I had a job for a while as an announcer at WWV but I finally quit, because I couldn't stand the hours."

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paul8539
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by paul8539 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:00 pm

BEN:

What 'New York message boards'? How can I get to them?



bmw
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by bmw » Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:51 am

Are there any breakdowns in ratings data that would show of any given AM stations broadcasting in digital/analog hybrid mode, what percentage of their listeners listen to analog vs digital? Would it be fair for me to assume that the analog listeners outnumber the digital listeners by at least a 20-to-1 ratio?



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WOHO
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Re: Be On The Lookout For IBOC Interference From WFAS 1230

Post by WOHO » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:34 pm

When I did my radio diary 25 years ago, I would denote WJR-AM stereo, and CFCO-AM stereo, whether they denoted that in the Arbitron Toledo book, I don't know?



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