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AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

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TC Shuts Up
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AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by TC Shuts Up » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:36 pm

Alone Groudwave

580 WTCM
620 WTMJ
680 WDBC
790 WSGW
940 WIDG
1110 WJML
1240 WCBY
1270 WMKT
1310 WCCW
1340 WMBN

Alone Borderline

760 WJR
960 WHAK

Intermittent Weak GW

1210 WJNL
1370 WLJW
1400 WLJN
1440 WMAX

CH Skywave

640 WMFN
670 WSCR
720 WGN
740 CFZM
750 WNDZ
780 WBBM
800 CKLW
850 WGVS
860 CJBC
870 WKAR
890 WLS
910 WFDF
930 WFAT
950 WWJ
1000 WMVP
1050 WTKZ
1060 KYW
1070 CHOK
1080 WNWI
1100 WTAM
1140 WRVA
1150 WHBY
1160 WYLL
1170 WFDL
1190 WOWO
1280 WNAM
1300 WOOD
1320 WILS
1360 WTAQ
1380 WPHM
1500 WLQV
1520 WMLM
1590 WGBW
1610 CHHA
Last edited by TC Shuts Up on Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Rich F.
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Rich F. » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:11 am

Leo wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:52 pm
Interesting list. Not surprised by WFDF 910 and WWJ 950 from the Detroit Area, those 2 stations have a direct north signal at 50 kw daytime ...
Interesting that WJR 760, Detroit with 50 kW of transmitter power 24/7 and a non-directional antenna has a more useful received field in the above list categories than WWJ and WFDF — whose daytime directional patterns radiate much more power toward the Straits than WJR.



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Big Signal
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Big Signal » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:18 am

WFDF is 15 kw nighttime
Just a small correction, WFDF is 25KW at night.

https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finde ... 0&sr=Y&s=C


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Rich F.
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Rich F. » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:38 am

Big Signal wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:18 am
... WFDF is 25KW at night.
True, and they radiate 200 kW or more toward the Straits area of Michigan at night.

Image



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Ben Zonia
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Ben Zonia » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:11 pm

The closer you get to Lake Michigan, the more the Wisconsin stations on 910 (WDOR) and 950 (WCLB) interfere with WFDF and WWJ. WDOR and WFDF were nearly synched before WFDF moved and went 50 kW. Now, WFDF is about a 3-4 Hz different carrier frequency than WDOR. When WDOR reduces to 102 watts, and WDOR to 11 watts, they are no longer a factor.


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k8jd
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by k8jd » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:40 pm

Rich F. wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:11 am
Leo wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:52 pm
Interesting list. Not surprised by WFDF 910 and WWJ 950 from the Detroit Area, those 2 stations have a direct north signal at 50 kw daytime ...
Interesting that WJR 760, Detroit with 50 kW of transmitter power 24/7 and a non-directional antenna has a more useful received field in the above list categories than WWJ and WFDF — whose daytime directional patterns radiate much more power toward the Straits than WJR.
The multi tower arrays of the WWJ, WFDF , WMUZ AM, and a few other "New" 50 kw Detroit signals' major lobes, are going a bit too far west of the straits to be as strong as WJR.



k8jd
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by k8jd » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:44 pm

Ben Zonia wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:11 pm
The closer you get to Lake Michigan, the more the Wisconsin stations on 910 (WDOR) and 950 (WCLB) interfere with WFDF and WWJ. WDOR and WFDF were nearly synched before WFDF moved and went 50 kW. Now, WFDF is about a 3-4 Hz different carrier frequency than WDOR. When WDOR reduces to 102 watts, and WDOR to 11 watts, they are no longer a factor.
The big 50 kw AM signals from Milwaukee are on pretty directional antennas now, In Detroit it's really hard to hear them but as you drive up north they start getting stronger as you get toward the front of those antenna arrays.



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Big Signal
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Big Signal » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:45 pm

I've been in Traverse City at night and WWJ was strong with no interference. I don't know if it's that way every night but it even locked in the HD up there, no problem.


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innate-in-you
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by innate-in-you » Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:45 pm

Rich F. wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:38 am
Big Signal wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:18 am
... WFDF is 25KW at night.
True, and they radiate 200 kW or more toward the Straits area of Michigan at night.

Image
What site plots out the the pattern and other details about the signal is such detail.
Neat!



Rich F.
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Rich F. » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:24 am

As a follow-up relating to the coverage of WJR in the Straits area of Michigan, below is a map from the 1960s of the Nielsen ratings showing the county-by-county "penetration" of WJR in its daytime coverage area,

Notice that while the antenna of WJR radiates an omnidirectional signal, it becomes deformed/shaped by the conductivity of the Earth in the various compass directions and distances from their transmit site.

Image



CK-722
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by CK-722 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:57 pm

:shock: Image

Notice that the above doesn't match maps based on M-3. toward the Straits. But if you had a good TRF tuned AM antenna and/or simple preamp, you could hear WJR easily in the Daytime in Cheboygan County. Even today in an electrically quiet area.

I suspect that the 50% plus penetration in Cheboygan County is from Tiger Baseball on WJR. WWTV-FM and WTCM-FM were difficult to receive. WTCM 1400 nearly impossible. If WCBY had it, it only got out a few miles at Night. WATC Gaylord in Otsego County (no penetration shown, but you could probably get WWTV-FM/WKJF-FM there) may have had it, but it was a strict Daytimer, no PSSA. at the time.

Grayling is shown in the wrong County on the map Rich F posted. Grayling is in Crawford County. The map Rich F posted shows it in Roscommon County. The M-3 prediction shows the WJR 0.5 mV/m contour goes to around Clare. The map posted by Rich shows it going to halfway between Grayling and Gaylord. I thinlk 0.2 mV/m is probably what the M-3 predction would be there.
Last edited by CK-722 on Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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CK-722
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by CK-722 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:44 pm

In Genesee County, WKMF 1470 had the Tigers until the mid 1960s. By 1968, you had to have a better transistor radio to hear WJR in Factories and Schools, when they had the World Series. WSGW 790 had the Tigers, getting into the Tri Cities well. Rich may remember that WSGW has huqe lobes toward Saginaw and Bay City, but a shallow null toward Midland.


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Turkeytop
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Turkeytop » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:04 pm

For the biggest part of my life, I lived up in the part of Ontario I've marked with a yellow dot on the map. WJR pounded in there day and night.

When I was a small kid and we didn't yet have TVin the house, my mom and dad used to have WJR on the big radio in the living room.

Image

http://london.marknmel.com/albums/misc/wjr.jpg



CK-722
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by CK-722 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:47 pm

There are many people who believe that the Great Lakes have higher conductivity than M-3 reports, 8 mS/m. Even the Canadian side reports 10 mS/m for their side. So you might get a signal closer to 0.5 mV/m. But not on the sand North and West of Clare.


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Turkeytop
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Re: AM Daytime And CH NW Straits Area Of Michigan

Post by Turkeytop » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:06 pm

I believe WJRs slogan used to be "The great voice of the Great Lakes."



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